Recon/Scouting.

[Champagne]

I need help with my tactics in this area.

Even my two-man scouting teams get spotted and killed . . . even at night or dawn!

I set them to short covered arc, I have them crawl/Slow towards to point needing recon . . . it doesn't matter, they still get spotted first and killed.

One specific scenario/campaign that gets me is the German campaign where Panzer Lehr must conduct recon in the first scenario. My poor scouting gets me defeated fairly handily.

Helpful comments, suggestions and tips are most appreciated !

Thanks!

[stikkypixie]

I need help with my tactics in this area.

Even my two-man scouting teams get spotted and killed . . . even at night or dawn!

I set them to short covered arc, I have them crawl/Slow towards to point needing recon . . . it doesn't matter, they still get spotted first and killed.

One specific scenario/campaign that gets me is the German campaign where Panzer Lehr must conduct recon in the first scenario. My poor scouting gets me defeated fairly handily.

Helpful comments, suggestions and tips are most appreciated !

Thanks!

Troops that are "moving" will have worse spotting abilities than troops that are standing still. Also you scout team is only two guys, whereas the enemy has probably 12 guys looking for enemies. This means that they have a greater chance of seeing your guys. Of course two guys are harder to spot, but still.

For this particular scenario, I don't know what's best. It's not an easy task. I guess the key is to be patient.

[gunnergoz]

What sort of terrain are they covering to the "point needing recon?" If they have to crawl through a lot of exposed terrain, with little natural cover, the chances of their being spotted goes up.

One more thing to consider...I don't think of it as "the point needing recon," I think of it as a "recon route" and every leg of that journey should be potentially a place where they can discover something new. So if you are fixated at a hedgerow 100 meters away, the route to that point is every bit as important to your intelligence gathering as is the end point. Clearly so, since your scouts are only halfway to the end point you've selected and they have already uncovered valuable intelligence - the enemy positions that kill them.

Like Styikkypixie said, take your recon slow, in short hops. Crawling may also not be the way you want to go since it is so slow it places your troops at risk longer and gives the enemy more time to acquire sight of them. Try to find short hops with cover, and send your scouts there, wait a bit and then forward again as your main body moves up.

I use the Hunt command for scouts since this stops them when they first notice the enemy. That alone may help them not walk into an ambush, because with any other order, including slow/crawl, they will try to keep moving even after they see the enemy, and if they see the enemy, there is also a chance the enemy sees them.

[Renaud]

The two man recon teams in and of themselves won't spot much. My tactic is to insure there are other units (with field glasses) in stationary positions watching the scout teams advance. The scout team advances in cover (if possible) using 'hunt' so they go to ground immediately when fired at. The overwatching elements will then spot the firing enemy (usually as just ? markers). Then you can pound the spotted enemy positions with area fire. Rinse and repeat.

Isolated scout teams without overwatch will almost always be spotted first if they are moving, by stationary enemy in LOS. And then become casualties. I haven't played missions where you are supposed to actually move into an area to 'recon' it.

Also don't forget the 2-man scout teams are unique in that they will be assigned one of the squad smoke grenades. (The leader team gets the other one).

[bbaker]

The first mission of the Panzer Marsch campaign is a good tutorial for scouting at night, and the third is shaping up to be a good lesson in scouting at dawn. You might want to try those. So far, I've learned that if you let a team sit in place for a few turns, they're likely to see many things they missed at first. Spotting takes time. Seems like very different behavior than I remember from CMx1.

[gunnergoz]

Scouts also prove their worth in the excellent Devil's Descent campaign.

[Champagne]

What sort of terrain are they covering to the "point needing recon?" If they have to crawl through a lot of exposed terrain, with little natural cover, the chances of their being spotted goes up.

One more thing to consider...I don't think of it as "the point needing recon," I think of it as a "recon route" and every leg of that journey should be potentially a place where they can discover something new. So if you are fixated at a hedgerow 100 meters away, the route to that point is every bit as important to your intelligence gathering as is the end point. Clearly so, since your scouts are only halfway to the end point you've selected and they have already uncovered valuable intelligence - the enemy positions that kill them.

Like Styikkypixie said, take your recon slow, in short hops. Crawling may also not be the way you want to go since it is so slow it places your troops at risk longer and gives the enemy more time to acquire sight of them. Try to find short hops with cover, and send your scouts there, wait a bit and then forward again as your main body moves up.

I use the Hunt command for scouts since this stops them when they first notice the enemy. That alone may help them not walk into an ambush, because with any other order, including slow/crawl, they will try to keep moving even after they see the enemy, and if they see the enemy, there is also a chance the enemy sees them.

Very helpful thoughts and suggestions, especially concerning use of Hunt for recon/scouts.

[Champagne]

The first mission of the Panzer Marsch campaign is a good tutorial for scouting at night, and the third is shaping up to be a good lesson in scouting at dawn. You might want to try those. So far, I've learned that if you let a team sit in place for a few turns, they're likely to see many things they missed at first. Spotting takes time. Seems like very different behavior than I remember from CMx1.

Thanks! Good stuff.

[Champagne]

Also don't forget the 2-man scout teams are unique in that they will be assigned one of the squad smoke grenades. (The leader team gets the other one).

Thanks very much! Good tip !

[womble]

Also, your scouts will see and hear more when they are not moving. So Slow moves with lots of pauses will have a better chance of spotting the enemy first than just continually crawling closer. I had excellent results in a recent "Small force on Large map" QB with scouting teams sitting in their cover 'til they were sure nothing was able to see them, then moving (Quick, Fast or Slow, depending) to the next cover and sitting for a couple of minutes.

I don't think scouting (rather than recon by bait or by fire) is going to be much of an option in shorter scenarios. It just takes too long for the info to be gathered safely.