sburke Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 Have a question regarding employment of the LMG security team found in the PzJg companies. *Broadsword56 it is okay to read this, it has been reviewed for operational security* In a current battle I have employed them independently, but in real conditions (like that replicated in Bois de Baugin) would the Germans have maintained the security element with the AT gun? Considering the paucity of resources I have my kp Commander Hpt Kaumeier decided we couldn't afford that , but am curious about doctrine. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 Have a question regarding employment of the LMG security team found in the PzJg companies. Hmmm. Curious question. I don't know anything definite, but from general knowledge would hazard a guess. First of all, is the PzJg. self-propelled? If so, I would expect the security element to be deployed to protect the rally/rearming point. If it's just an ATG, then deployed somewhere nearby to protect the gun. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonC Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 Doctrine was definitely to leave the MG near the gun. It was actually manned by battery personnel, and was meant to defend the immediate location against enemy infantry, to keep them from getting to the gun itself, etc. A battery would usually create an infantry defense scheme, after the guns were placed for their primary AT mission. The battery commander could allocate each gun team's MG to a different fire lane, usually with a secondary lane as well, along a different direction. The idea being to create a network of crossed fire lanes from all the various MGs that would prevent enemy infantry from getting close enough to thebguns to knock them out. They would usually aim to keep infantry at least 250 meters away, with "final protective fire" lines ( to use the American term) more like 50 meters out (grenade range). This does mean the MG doesn't need to be right next to it's gun. But near enough to cover approach to it by fire, crossing that fire with the MGs of other guns in the battery. I hope this helps. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted June 4, 2011 Author Share Posted June 4, 2011 Hmmm. Curious question. I don't know anything definite, but from general knowledge would hazard a guess. First of all, is the PzJg. self-propelled? If so, I would expect the security element to be deployed to protect the rally/rearming point. If it's just an ATG, then deployed somewhere nearby to protect the gun. Michael It's a towed ATG. I haven't looked at the TOE in the editor but i suspect the sp guns don't get a security detail. I would tend to agree with you, seems logical enough. I tried telling that to Hpt Kaumeier, but the SOB just told me I could alternatively be posted to the russian front. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted June 4, 2011 Author Share Posted June 4, 2011 Doctrine was definitely to leave the MG near the gun. It was actually manned by battery personnel, and was meant to defend the immediate location against enemy infantry, to keep them from getting to the gun itself, etc. A battery would usually create an infantry defense scheme, after the guns were placed for their primary AT mission. The battery commander could allocate each gun team's MG to a different fire lane, usually with a secondary lane as well, along a different direction. The idea being to create a network of crossed fire lanes from all the various MGs that would prevent enemy infantry from getting close enough to the guns to knock them out. They would usually aim to keep infantry at least 250 meters away, with "final protective fire" lines ( to use the American term) more like 50 meters out (grenade range). This does mean the MG doesn't need to be right next to it's gun. But near enough to cover approach to it by fire, crossing that fire with the MGs of other guns in the battery. I hope this helps. Much appreciated and yes helpful. I really enjoyed the Bois de Baugin AAR and was looking forward to a battle on this map. It is a beautiful work of art. Unfortunately that also means you have to deal with real world terrain issues where lines of fire and observation aren't all that easy to find. I didn't appreciate the difficulties this map would present for defense as at first glance it looks like you have a great defensive position. Try finding a good spot for your AT gun that won't have everything in sight nailing it as soon as you fire. :-P When I finished set up and started reviewing my unit organization I noticed what I had done with what by rights should be there to protect the ATG. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magpie_Oz Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 This article (again) talks about security elements assisting Tigers so presumably the same thing was done for SP and AT Guns. http://www.lonesentry.com/tigerflorence/index.html 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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