"Neutral" ship exploit

[lettowvorbeck]

In my pbem game, I have a tight blockade over the opening of the Adriatic (no possible openings). My opponent passed a "neutral" Turkish battleship right through my line -- none of my ships were spotted so he went right through an occupied tile. But the kicker is he left it in a blocking position at the mouth, so now I cannot pass him in return. :mad: So basically the entire Adriatic is blocked to me until Turkey joins the war. It is obviously a practiced exploit on the part of this crafty German..Ha.

Hopefully something can be done, maybe keep Turkey's fleet (like Italy's) offscreen until a declaration of war.

[xwormwood]

Better would be a solution where neutral ships don't block anything, or a neutral shipping zone they shouldn't leave (or else facing some consequences, just like the neutral zone for the USA in SC Global Conflict).

[jon_j_rambo]

Yeah, might need house rule or Hubert put a fix in.

IHSV,

-Legend

[Bill101]

It strikes me that this could be a counterproductive use of the Ottoman navy, i.e. it blocks the strait, you declare war on the Ottomans, sink their ship, and hey presto, they've lost a ship, a couple of % points on their National Morale, and you will have gained the same from the sinking!

But I can see that if this happens very early in the war before Ottoman mobilization is high then this would be more of a problem for the Entente to do this than later on when the Ottomans are about to join anyway.

[xwormwood]

...It strikes me ... , and hey presto, they've lost a ship, a couple of % points on their National Morale, and you will have gained the same from the sinking!...

I love this answer!

[vonRocko]

I'm afraid I don't understand, A neutral ship can pass through a belligerent, but a belligerent can't pass through a neutral ship? Is this correct? If so, why?

Thanks

[lettowvorbeck]

Presumably, they pass through unspotted ships so the player doing it cannot use it for free scouting for his own active forces to follow up with. I don't know about unspotted neutral ships but spotted neutrals cannot be passed through.

There is an additional annoyance with this. You know those times when you run into an unspotted enemy ship and then are not allowed to attack? Aligned neutral ships like Turkey's can do that to Entente shipping. My opponent had an unspotted Turkish neutral ship parked right next to a spotted Austrian one and when I moved to finish the Austrian ship off, the Turkish unit zapped me and no attack was possible. That definitely should not be allowed under any circumstances.

[vonRocko]

Presumably, they pass through unspotted ships so the player doing it cannot use it for free scouting for his own active forces to follow up with. I don't know about unspotted neutral ships but spotted neutrals cannot be passed through.

There is an additional annoyance with this. You know those times when you run into an unspotted enemy ship and then are not allowed to attack? Aligned neutral ships like Turkey's can do that to Entente shipping. My opponent had an unspotted Turkish neutral ship parked right next to a spotted Austrian one and when I moved to finish the Austrian ship off, the Turkish unit zapped me and no attack was possible. That definitely should not be allowed under any circumstances.

Ok, now I got it. Unspotted is the point I missed, Thanks. I feel your original idea is best, The turkish navy should stay off the map till war is declared. That is probably the easiest solution.

[Bill101]

Agreed, that would be the easiest solution and I'll put this on my list.

[SeaMonkey]

I just want to mention that any predeployment, fixed postion for nonbelligerents, represents an exploit for the attacker when the neutral nation joins, ie France and RN beating up on the Italian navy the turn Italy joins.

My opinion is that all nonbelligerents have their naval forces(and perhaps land forces as well) in the build Q in which case they can be deployed at the owning player's discretion. If he predeploys, then he is subject to attack, otherwise, he can avoid any gamey moves by his opponent. It takes away a surprise element, but PH attack should be scripted anyway, anything else seems unrealistic as only the first time a campaign is played the whereabouts of enemy units will be unknown.

This might not be a bad idea for land forces as well. Think about it, when a DoW is declared there should be only enough defending forces for a local border defense and then the owning player can deploy from a build Q the forces he has decided to hold in reserve. When we see the "X prepares for War" warning, that would be the time the build Q deployment would be available either to deploy or to hold in reserve, dependent upon the owning player's decisions.

[Karhu]

This is an excellent idea. It would add a lot of unpredictability and variety to the game, and allow people to try out different strategies.