DLaurier Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Hullo ladies and germs. I has a problem finding info about a nasty brawl betwixt axis and soviet troops 'round a ditch that stradled the neck of the crimean penninsula. This ditch was appearantly the site of a lot of Romanian and Russian shooting and stabbing. Unfortunately nobody seems to care enough to post details of this event on wiki, so I'm asking the grogs for leads. Autumn and early winter, 1941. Allied was a mix of naval and army units. Axis was Romanian I think. (I've been wrong about a few things in my life) The neck was under 10 klicks wide... Swamp on the east shore, open sea on the west... I've looked everywhere for details about this little brawl. You folks are my last hope. JasonC I'm looking at you. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfish Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 Check google for references to the 'Tartar Ditch'. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DLaurier Posted March 2, 2011 Author Share Posted March 2, 2011 Check google for references to the 'Tartar Ditch'. I did... Lots of info about other battles the involved units fought in. Very little about that one battle. It's almost as though nobody cares. Rather sad actualy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 could also ask at BoB (Band of Brothers) site... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuirassier Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 The battle for the Tartar ditch began what would become the Crimean campaign. Manstein, 11 Army commander, attacked with with Hansen's 54 Korps, consisting of 73 ID, 46 ID, a regimental KG from 22 ID, the SS LAH Aufklarung battalion, an army engineer regiment and a StuG battalion. So no Romanian units, just German. The rest of Manstein's force (2 Korps) was northeast, facing other Soviet forces. The Germans also had lots of artillery. In addition to the divisional artillery and an army artillery regiment, they also had a battery of 240mm guns and a battery of 305mm mortars. Opposing 56 Korps was Kuznetzov's 51 Independent Army. Kuznetzov had previously commanded the Northwestern Front during its disastrous border battles. 51 Army defended with 7 divisions (5 Rifle, 2 Cavalry) and an independent tank regiment. Two Rifle Divisions and the Tank Regiment defended the first belt of fortifications and another RD and a Cavalry Division defended in second echelon. In the far rear, around Ishun, defended two more RD's and another Cavalry division. The terrain was a wide open, flat salt steppe, devoid of cover. The Soviets had fortified the the first echelon defensives extensively and made use of the Tartar ditch, which was about 50 feet deep and wide, and extended across the entire isthmus. Overall, the Soviet defensive position was 10 km deep and and 5km wide at its narrowest point. It was not, however, fortified throughout its entire depth. The Germans attacked on 24 September, 1941, after a preliminary recon in force, which cleared the approaches to the Tartar ditch. They pounded against the line for 3 days, 73 and 46 ID's carrying the weight of the attack, driving to the Ishun area. Here the Soviets counterattacked with two Cavalry divisions and their remaining armor, but were shot to pieces in the attempt. However, of 26 September, two Soviet armies attacked Manstein's forces in the Melitopol area, forcing him to divert his Mountain Korps to the crisis area. The Mountain Korps had been intended to form a second echelon for 11 Army's attack into the Crimea, but could no longer fulfill this task. Furthermore, the German attacking units were becoming increasingly exhausted from the assault. Manstein therefore called off the attack by 29 September. 56 Korps suffered 2641 casualties. I don't know Soviet casualty figures, but Manstein claims 10 000 prisoners and 112 and 135 captured tanks and guns respectively. Descriptions of this battle are short on tactical analysis. However, the Germans likely achieved the success they did due to their coordinated use of infantry and heavy artillery. The terrain was suited to the use of heavy artillery given that it was flat and open, allowing for good observation. Conversely, Soviet forces were generally of poor quality and had trouble coordinating artillery, tanks and infantry etc at this point in the war. These two factors allowed the Germans to attack successfully and also made any Soviet counterattack attempts ruinous. But keep in mind that it was certainly no cakewalk, as German casualty figures show. And they didn't breakthrough on the first attempt either. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DLaurier Posted March 3, 2011 Author Share Posted March 3, 2011 I found a great map. University of Texas. ww2 era maps of eastern europe. The actual neck is a bit too big to recreate in a scenario. Perekop is just ahead of the first ditch. On the east side of the neck. Theres another ditch just a few clicks behind it that only goes halfway in from the west side. A road, and a rail line, both cross the ditch. A warm "thankyou" and a round of beers for Kingfish, Erwin, and Cuirassier. Any and all further info is also appreciated 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dieseltaylor Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 Do you do links? : ) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DLaurier Posted March 3, 2011 Author Share Posted March 3, 2011 Do you do links? : ) If you can post it, I can click on it. http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/topo/ http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/ams/eastern_europe/txu-oclc-6519747-nl36-5.jpg 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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