Major SNAFU Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 This is just a general question that has floated in my mind for some time that perhaps some people here might have some ideas or information about. Why do the MBT and mobile gun platforms have so few rounds? (It would also be nice to be able to modify the HE/AP composition for each loadout based on what type of battle you expect to fight). The US (and other countries) have spent so much money developing these amazing weapons systems and then, to use flying parlance, given them such short legs in terms of how long they can maintain sustained firing. What is the average length of engagement that, say, the Abrams was designed for before it would be expected to have access to reloading? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pešadija Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 It's not really needed. If an MBT, today, is in a situation where it needs to fire that many rounds without the possibility to resupply while playing tag-team with other tanks (like the Russians did attacking Minutka square in Chechnya), it's probably boned no matter how well armed it is. Survivability is where the tank's survival chances stay (pardon the pun). Like that challenger, don't remember exactly when, buttoned up for hours against a band of insurgents, resisting RPGs and such. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 I agree about the LAV-like Mobile Gun Platform. 10 rounds of HE or thereabouts? It does seen incredibly low. I wonder if in RL they have a resupply vehicle nearby. Obviously, they are not meant for armored conflict but only as HE support. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damian90 Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 This is just a general question that has floated in my mind for some time that perhaps some people here might have some ideas or information about. Why do the MBT and mobile gun platforms have so few rounds? (It would also be nice to be able to modify the HE/AP composition for each loadout based on what type of battle you expect to fight). The US (and other countries) have spent so much money developing these amazing weapons systems and then, to use flying parlance, given them such short legs in terms of how long they can maintain sustained firing. What is the average length of engagement that, say, the Abrams was designed for before it would be expected to have access to reloading? Today nobody need near 100 rounds inside a vehicle. M1/M1IP tanks had 55 rounds of 105mm (22 in magazine behind loader, 22 in magazine behind TC and 8 in hull magazine on the right side behind turret and TC position when turret is rotated at 12 o clock and 3 more in the rack below gun breach), M1A1, M1A1HA have 40 rounds (17 in magazine behind loader, 17 in magazine behind TC and 6 in hull magazine on the right side behind turret and TC position when turret is rotated at 12 o clock) and, up from M1A1HC variant, they have 42 rounds (18 in magazine behind loader, 18 in magazine behind TC and 6 in hull magazine on the right side behind turret and TC position when turret is rotated at 12 o clock). Still after some hull modifications, in M1 tanks with M256 120mm smoothbore gun, it is possible to store even 66 rounds. I tried that at some drawings and taking in to consideration some upgrades developed for M1 tanks but never integrated in to design. Also FASTDRAW system for turret bustle magazines should be integrated, it increase survivability and reduce reload time. Challenger 2 can store 50 rounds and propelant charges for them (two piece ammo). Why M1128 Stryker MGS have only 18 rounds? Firstly because there is not much space for more, and because original demands for MGS was to be transportabale in C-130, so they needed to take weight down, also by reducing ammo capacity. Maybe the new upgraded Strykers will have more ammo in their M1128 variant. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pešadija Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 And Damian's answer should close the thread. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major SNAFU Posted February 18, 2011 Author Share Posted February 18, 2011 Today nobody need near 100 rounds inside a vehicle. M1/M1IP tanks had 55 rounds of 105mm (22 in magazine behind loader, 22 in magazine behind TC and 8 in hull magazine on the right side behind turret and TC position when turret is rotated at 12 o clock and 3 more in the rack below gun breach), M1A1, M1A1HA have 40 rounds (17 in magazine behind loader, 17 in magazine behind TC and 6 in hull magazine on the right side behind turret and TC position when turret is rotated at 12 o clock) and, up from M1A1HC variant, they have 42 rounds (18 in magazine behind loader, 18 in magazine behind TC and 6 in hull magazine on the right side behind turret and TC position when turret is rotated at 12 o clock). Still after some hull modifications, in M1 tanks with M256 120mm smoothbore gun, it is possible to store even 66 rounds. I tried that at some drawings and taking in to consideration some upgrades developed for M1 tanks but never integrated in to design. Also FASTDRAW system for turret bustle magazines should be integrated, it increase survivability and reduce reload time. Challenger 2 can store 50 rounds and propelant charges for them (two piece ammo). Why M1128 Stryker MGS have only 18 rounds? Firstly because there is not much space for more, and because original demands for MGS was to be transportabale in C-130, so they needed to take weight down, also by reducing ammo capacity. Maybe the new upgraded Strykers will have more ammo in their M1128 variant. Thanks. And how does one go about accessing the hull magazine? They who up as 3 HE and 3AP rounds greyed out in the interface. I am in the middle of a firefight (prolonged) and I am running out of HE everywhere. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abneo3sierra Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 In general practice US tanks do not carry the amount of shells mentioned, I believe Damien's point is that they COULD...but really, should not be using that much ammunition in a CMSF 'few hours' battle...and as you run low, or really, before then...pick your shots like a sniper..do not go for the long range/low percentage type of shots unless you absolutely have to, and in that case, pick a good spot to hide, choose your engagement envelope, and fire off a shot or two, then move, and repeat. If your tank is in a firefight where it needs to fire more often than that, you probably are in serious trouble anyway as pointed out above. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damian90 Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 And how does one go about accessing the hull magazine? They who up as 3 HE and 3AP rounds greyed out in the interface. In reality turret need to be rotated at proper position, then laoder disable it's rotation by blocking turret ring by special switch (dunno how it is called), then he firstly opens turret basket side wall made from wire mesh, then he opens hull magazine blast doors, take one round and load it in to read ammo magazine behind his position, he do this until he will load all of that ammo or quantity that is needed at that time. I saw somewhere manual but I can't find it. I am in the middle of a firefight (prolonged) and I am running out of HE everywhere. ?? HE in M1 tanks? Rather a HEAT or MPAT, US.Army still don't have dedicated HE rounds for M256 gun, only an M830A1 MPAT derivative, the M908 HEOR. However USMC recently purchased some quantities of German DM-11 HE ammo for their tanks. In general practice US tanks do not carry the amount of shells mentioned, I believe Damien's point is that they COULD... Turret bustle magazines are allways full if possible, but a former M1 tank crewmember, said to me that hull magazine is not allways full of ammo, mostly it is empty because reloading from it is time comsuming, difficult etc. Germans however contrary, stores most ammo in unprotected hull magazine, left to the driver station, after firing 15 rounds from protected magazine in turret bustle, they need to stop machine, rotate turret at correct position and reload magazine in turret. Leopard 2 tanks are at this process very vurnabale to enemy fire because they can't rotate turret and defend themselfes. As for rest I agree, never waste tanks or other vehicles ammo, it is not wise, especially that in CMSF we can't call ammo supplies in. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damian90 Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 One more thing, if you all really wan't to know more or less how looks fighting in tanks and other armored fighting vehicles, this video will help. It is Steel Beasts Profesional Personal Edition simulator, the Profesional version is used by some armies around world, like Polish Army. :-) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abneo3sierra Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 SB is a very good simulator. I did a rotation in training for armor, and the impression I was left with, was that it is a bad place to be if you are claustrophobic. At least in air assault we get some fresh air ha! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sakai007 Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 HaHa, I was Mech Infantry and I can tell you, I really felt like a sardine every time I climbed into a Stryker. It was times like those when I really kicked myself for not getting Airborne in my contract, lololol. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damian90 Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 Tank crews have more comfort it seems. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan/california Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 Two things to keep in mind. The math is very simple that as the gun caliber gets biger each round takes a LOT more room. The trade-off is much greater lethality. Secondly, Tanks carry a great deal of machine gun ammo. Dispense it liberally against maybes, or targets that probably cant hurt the tank. You don't get promoted for bringing it back 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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