Subs and Supply

[Colin I]

Enjoying GC game vs Rambo but noticing two problems:

1. Germany and Japan carved up USSR. Japan took the final USSR city so gets the MPP. Germany control most of the country but are all very low supply. When they were fighting the Soviets it was higher....! We need a partition script or change supply rules between Axis - its fair Japan does not cooperate fully but no cooperation (no supply from each others resources) is also wrong. Might have to change operational move rules too (a distance limit rather than between any friendly connected resource) as I suspect this is linked to supply ownership.

2. An old problem - subs bump into each other. Sub vs sub action was rare - would suggest all subs are silent vs all other subs. Sure they can't damage each other but they shouldn't block either. This problem is worse now as we have significant subs on both sides - in old days only Axis used subs a lot so it didn't show up as much.

[Hubert Cater]

Hi Colin,

To answer your second question, even though subs cannot pass through Destroyers, the situation might arise where a sub might get a surprise contact with another naval unit if you attempt to end your move on top of another naval unit or if it is about to end its move adjacent to another naval unit.

In this case it is stopped at the first position where it is not going to be on top of another naval unit etc.

I hope this helps,

Hubert

[Colin I]

Hubert,

Thanks but I'm really arguing for a rules change so that interaction between enemy subs is minimal - less than now. Currently they collide and do no damage (fine) but should not block - not even in hunting mode. In some games both US and Japan use them a lot and it can lead to blocking and search methods that were not very historical.

[SeaMonkey]

Good luck with that, Colin! I've been asking for the "pass-through" feature for all naval units for years now. It doesn't seem that it would be that difficult to incorporate with the current engine as we already have a unit coded to perform that exact maneuver, the Sub, the "silent" option.

Here's how it works, whenever a unit is found with the current setup, it will have the option to go over to silent mode, for surface vessels we'll call it the "evade" feature. The unit can now pass through all surrounding enemy units at a reduce AP rate and try to escape, but at the end of the move it automatically returns to the regular non-evade mode. This will allow enemy units to try and relocate it and you setup a running battle type of naval scheme, closer to reality.

Imagine now that when an enemy unit is found and tries to escape there will be a battle of maneuver on the high seas as combating units locate, attack, retire, reacquire each other until one side escapes or is vanquished.

And Colin, sub vs sub combat occurred in the WW2 seascape with over 50 subs losses because of enemy sub actions. So historically we should have sub vs sub combat, another thing that could be improved upon.

[jon_j_rambo]

I'm sure something could be done with Naval Combat by selecting & allowing more modes.

[Colin I]

SeaMonkey - mostly agree with you,except still feel sub vs sub conflict was rare enough not to be required in SC Global. Subs primarily interact with surface vessels. I would agree for a modern version where hunter-killer subs and better homing weapons are common place.

[Hubert Cater]

Hi Colin,

Perhaps there is a misunderstanding here as I mentioned they don't normally block unless you end your turn next to it or on top of it sort of thing. Is this not the case? If it is, it is not a block of your sub by another sub but rather that they've ended their moves next to each other so it is just being reported as a surprise contact which is the expected behaviour.

If not I would need to see a turn to confirm if this is a possible error, but either way this should not be too difficult to even test on your end with some test campaigns as it might give a better understanding of what is happening.

I only suggest this because due to fog of war what might appear as a block may instead be what I have described above and the only way to know for sure is if you know your opponent's positions which a test campaign would provide.

Hubert

[Colin I]

Dear Hubert,

Thanks. I think they genuinely block but will test this ASAP. BTW I am arguing they should not block other subs in hunt mode as well as silent.

[Hubert Cater]

Hi Colin,

Sounds good and just to add, whether a 'blocking' sub is in Hunt or Silent mode should not make any difference to the sub you are attempting to move through that particular position and I suspect your tests will confirm that... but if not I'll be happy to take a look as it won't be the first time there was a bug in the SC series

Hubert

[Colin I]

Dear Hubert - you are right - its surprise contacts. But my point is that if the two groups of subs do not interact very much then this shouldn't happen. You just need a rule like paratroopers - as far a subs go they move from point A to point B without the intervening path mattering UNLESS a unit that can stop them is able to intercept. If a sub tries to occupy an sea tile enemy sub it is displaced one area. Surprise contacts really shouldn't happen enough on a strategic scale between submarines to matter, IMHO.