Myths, the media and common beliefs

[dieseltaylor]

I am ashamed to admit that I have generally assumed from my TV learning that wagon trains through the West were always in danger of Indian attacks - not always but reasonably often.

I was surprised to see that in fact the largest massacre was by Mormons and far more cold-blooded and disgusting it is hard to imagine:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_Meadows_massacre

Not included in Wikipedia is the fact that the only one punished was in 1961 reinstated into the Church. Nice.

Anyone want to hazard a guess as to how many settlers out of the 0.5M who traversed the Indian territories died from hostile action?

[dumrox]

Interesting, I had never heard of this.

According to the following article on the Oregon Trail, Indian attacks were the 2nd leading cause of death behind disease, accounting for approximately 25% of all trail deaths. This article estimates 400k travellers with a 4% death rate meaning ~16k deaths, ~4k due to Indians. I don't think TV was pulling your leg on the Indian threat.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oregon_Trail

[dieseltaylor]

Indians accounted for 326 out of 0.5M died wagon-training through between 1840-1860 according to "Indians & Emmigrants" [2006] by M.L.Tate. Obviously that is a closely defined period so the overall figure would be larger. It is interesting to note though the discrepancy between the Wikipedai article in overall numbers with the later research [my guy] probably being more accurate as the Wiki notes there is a shortfall in numbers. You will also see the comment regarding the people on the wagon train leaving their guns on the wagons because the guns were heavy to wear.

So not only were attacks possibly over-egged but Indians riding around and round a circle of wagons was due to the need to fit the Wild West show into the rings of the circus!

Some of the famousn "massacres" like killing some 7 of the 12 wagons drivers taking supplies to a fort ignore the fact that an anbulance wagon train had been allowed to pass the same day by the same Indians. However other sources say it was an escort for Sherman that passed ahead and do not mention the ambulance convoy at all. That was the Warren Wagon Train massacre 1871 also known as Salt Creek Massacre. Not to be confused with another biggy when 4 settlers were killed in the Salt Creek Canyon Massacre 1858.

There is a lot of bumf and Mr Buntline was responsible for a lot of it as he wrote his novels. He invented the fast-draw, the fanning action, and shooting from the hip. In 15 years 1870-1885 there were 45 killings in Abilene. Ellsworth, Wichita, Dodge, and Caldwell. Thats 45 total.

Bat Masterson also transferred from gunfighter to became a journalist and died in 1921 at his desk - he was Sports editor for a New York newspaper. Pestered by a gun collector he had bought as a joke a second-hand Colt and carved twenty notches on to it to sell to him.

[noxnoctum]

Yep Mormons are creepy. Really creepy. They can be extremely kind on the outside but there's always something "off" I feel around them (I lived and worked with a 90% Mormon company for 2 months---we were all put up in the same hotel by the company and had multiple daily meetings and so on).

Unless they're "lapsed" Mormons of course lol.

Read the Sherlock Holmes story "A Study in Scarlet" if you really wanna get creeped out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFZ1jVO3-OE

A cartoon, but a thoroughly accurate portrayal of their beliefs.

[Michael Emrys]

Indians accounted for 326 out of 0.5M died wagon-training through between 1840-1860...

But that was before the Indian wars shifted into high gear after the civil war. Granted that there were bloody campaigns before then, mostly in the East and eastern Midwest, but I have to wonder if the major migrations into Indian lands west of the Mississippi didn't wait until after the war.

Michael

[dieseltaylor]

Liked the cartoon. I actually think multiple wives could be good! : )

[Vanir Ausf B]

Yep Mormons are creepy. Really creepy.

"Creepy" is a very subjective term, bub.

[Michael Emrys]

I actually think multiple wives could be good! : )

As long as they have their own jobs or are heiresses.

Michael