Chemtrails coem to town!

[Stalins Organ]

Wahoo - at last we have a serious domestic conspiracy to investigate - Chemtrails over Nelson!

And as an aside "someone" has rung the authorities for which I work asking for an explaination....which of course I can't possibly comment on 'cos I'm not actually involved in answering it dammit......I wish I was...oh how I wish I was!

But then if I was I couldn't comment on it anyway as a good public servant does not bleat about such things on bulletin boards.....and because all public servants work for "Fourth Reich government appendages" and cant' admit anything! :cool:

But anyway...I can proudly state that there are now a few more people who know what "Kettlerian" means thanks to my efforts!!

[Wicky]

I blame the geese...

It’s not only jets that make contrails; piston aircraft do too. So do rockets. So, apparently, do birds. “I have heard of wild geese leaving vapor trails high over the Canadian Rockies,” Guy Murchie wrote in his book Song of the Sky. A goose exhaling warm, moist air into –38-degree air could produce a contrail, Minnis allows, although “it would certainly be a small one.”

[Stalins Organ]

Where's the fun in that??

[Stalins Organ]

it's a wonderful day - a request for information about chemtrails means I am actually getting paid to surf the web looking at nutjobs!!

Here's a great site bringing it all together and then smashing it to bits - depleted cranium

[dieseltaylor]

Fun in NZ. That guy muct be a Dik**** : ). Looking at the science link I saw this:

In the past few years a new method has arrived for fighting the corn borer. Genetically modified corn has been produced which contains genes derived from the bacteria bacillus thuringiensis. The modified corn produces a protein in its leaves that is toxic to the corn borer and other moths which may eat the corn. It has proven highly effective and safe for human consumption, but has still been the target of numerous anti-genetic technology groups.

A new study has reinforced the effectiveness of the crop, which has shown some very dramatic effects in just a few short years.

And I am sure that the effects on other insects, or populations that live off them, are fine also : ) But why should good science look further than a crop yield and effects on humans.

Incidentally I understand in the US that estrogen tags are clipped to sheep and cattle anfd that increases growth rates. Wonderful - but given girls of 9 are passing through to maturity and the general obeseness of the Americans might there be cause for concern. Of course it would be unfair to assume that the US food industry, anymore than the pharmaceutical industry, is untrustworthy in suppressing studies that be unfavourable, or, not carrying out studies on the wider implications.

[Stalins Organ]

Did you look up the wiki page for the bacillus that gave the gene to corn?

Theory has it that Bt modified cotton alone saved the use of 35 million kg of pesticide "active ingredient" - the bugs are going to die anyway - choose your weapon.....

[dieseltaylor]

I am no friend of pesticides so appreciate any reduction. However my fear is that in a war against insects they can adapt faster than new"cures" can be found. And the making of a smaller crop variety pools is a mistake. I look at the Cavendish banana as an example.

Insect resistance

In November 2009, Monsanto scientists found that the pink bollworm had become resistant to Bt cotton in parts of Gujarat, India. In four regions, Amreli, Bhavnagar, Junagarh and Rajkot the crop is no longer effective at killing the pests. This was the first instance of Bt resistance that was confirmed by Monsanto anywhere in the world.[34]

[edit] Secondary pests

Chinese farmers have found that after seven years of growing BT cotton the populations of other insects other than bollworms, such as mirids, have become significant problems.[35] Similar problems but with mealy bugs have been reported in India.

As for pesticides, you have to marvel at what goes on:

The Environmental Working Group's Dirty Dozen list, under attack by AFF, begins with peaches as the most contaminated fruit, followed by apples, nectarines and strawberries. In his book, Allen breaks down the pesticides used on two of these four fruits. In 2004, California peach growers used 124 separate pesticides on their orchards. Nearly three-quarters of the 468,804 pounds of pesticides used on California peaches that year were accounted for by 12 pesticides: organophosphates phosmet, diazinon, and chlorpyrifos; carbaryl (a carbamate insecticide); herbicides glyphosate, oxyfluorfen, oryzalin, simazine, and the highly toxic paraquat dichloride; fungicides copper oxide and iprodione, and the soil fumigant methyl bromide (a chemical being phased out worldwide).

For strawberries, Allen estimates that an average 335.4 pounds of pesticides were used per acre of strawberries grown in California in 2004. That year, California strawberry growers used 184 different pesticides, but only six accounted for over 80 percent of all pesticides use: soil fumigants chloropicrin, methyl bromide, 1,3-dichloropropene, and metam sodium, and fungicides sulfur and captan. Allen points out that all four fumigants (which he says are "among the most toxic chemicals on earth") are restricted-use pesticides, meaning that they may only be applied by trained and certified applicators due to their toxicity. All four chemicals cause acute toxicity and they are listed as Bad Actor Chemicals by Pesticide Action Network. 1,3-dichloropropene and metam sodium are carcinogens and both methyl bromide and metam sodium are developmental toxins.

Additionally, three of the four fumigants (all except 1,3-dichloropropene) are restricted in California, requiring farmers to obtain special permits from the state's Department of Pesticide Regulation (DPR) in order to use them. Allen says farmers applied for these permits because of "farm practices of growing carrots and strawberries and potatoes in the same place year after year after year after year, never rotating their crops to break the pest cycle for that crop." He says farmers should listen to the wisdom of generations of farmers before them instead of taking advice from "chemical merchants" so they can retain "the art of rotation and soil nutrient balance, which enables farmers to naturally control pests and disease." Despite their toxicity and restricted status, methyl bromide, metam sodium and chloropicrin account for over 60 percent of all pesticides use on carrots.

But, even if many pesticides are used on fruits and vegetables and the main route of exposure to organophosphates (and perhaps other classes of pesticides) is dietary, do the residues of pesticides in fruits and vegetables actually harm our health? For one thing, there have been recent findings about the link between organophosphates and ADHD. One study published this past May found that each 10-fold increase in urinary concentration of organophosphates was associated with a 55 to 72 percent increase in likelihood that a child ages eight to 15 would have ADHD. Of the 1,139 children in the study, 93.8 percent tested positive for detectable levels of one or more metabolites of common organophosphates. A second study, published in August, linked prenatal exposure to organophosphates to increased levels of ADHD in children once they reached five years old. In this case, each 10-fold increase in a pregnant mother's urinary concentration of organophosphates led to a 500-percent increase that her child would be diagnosed with ADHD at age five.

Pesticide Action Network criticizes the EPA's regulation of pesticides, saying they do not account for additive and synergistic effects. "Since the Environmental Protection Agency regulates most chemicals on a chemical-by-chemical basis, the combined and cumulative effects of a mixture of pesticides are nearly impossible for them to address -- and so they usually don't," says a statement on its Web site. The organization cites human health impacts linked to pesticide exposure including birth defects, cancers, Parkinson's Disease, and a host of developmental and neurological disorders and reproductive and hormonal system disruptions. "Given the complexities of chemical causality and disease-formulation," they ask, why take the chance of consuming even residual levels of pesticides in our food at all?

The President's Cancer Panel report, released this past May, concurs, saying that "approximately 40 chemicals classified by the International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC) as known, probable, or possible human carcinogens, are used in EPA-registered pesticides now on the market." Noting that the levels of pesticides allowed in food by the EPA have been criticized as inadequate and influenced by industry, the report unequivocally cautions Americans that "exposure to pesticides can be decreased by choosing, to the extent possible, food grown without pesticides or chemical fertilizers... Similarly, exposure to antibiotics, growth hormones, and toxic run-off from livestock feed lots can be minimized by eating free-range meat raised without these medications."

http://www.alternet.org/story/148437/industry_front_group_gets_taxpayer_money_to_convince_you_to_eat_pesticide-laden_food?page=entire

[Stalins Organ]

Yep - well..nothing surprising in resistance.....just like mosquito resistance to DDT....it's a product of monoculture/using a single method to control the bugs.

GM doesn't make smart farmers, or smart multi-nationals, or smart governments or their agencies, and if they farm dumb they reap what they sow, as it were :/

As for the other bit about pesticide interaction...er..yeah..OK..I can understand that....and how does it relate to the original point you made?

[dieseltaylor]

[and how does it relate to the original point you made?/QUOTE]

I would say not a lot!.

However given most people are not farmers I thought it was interesting to contrast and compare two different approaches to making money out of agriculture. It does make Bt seem better then chemicals.

[Stalins Organ]

oh - fair enuf then

Haven't had anything more on the original point of the thread - that is me having an excuse to browse the net about chemtrails - I imagine it will be a week or 2 before all the official responses get back to the questioners (they cc-ed the letter to several ministries and agencies), then they will have to get outraged & start with the press campaign or something...I'm sure there will b something about it here.

[dieseltaylor]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemtrail_conspiracy_theory

Seems to cover it well. Whilst the fundamental ides is accepted that aircraft are dropping crap as they fly anyhting beyond it in terms of conspiracy does seem seriously nut-job.

[Wicky]

Patrick Minnis, an atmospheric scientist with NASA's Langley Research Center in Hampton, Virginia, is quoted in USA Today as saying that logic is not exactly a real selling point for most chemtrail proponents: "If you try to pin these people down and refute things, it's, 'Well, you're just part of the conspiracy'," he said.

oh - fair enuf then

Haven't had anything more on the original point of the thread - that is me having an excuse to browse the net about chemtrails - I imagine it will be a week or 2 before all the official responses get back to the questioners (they cc-ed the letter to several ministries and agencies), then they will have to get outraged & start with the press campaign or something...I'm sure there will b something about it here.

[Affentitten]

I looked at the Wiki article yesterday and the discussion page is illuminating of the usual inverted pyramid of logic. Someone offers a YouTube link of a German government official confirming they are spraying stuff in the air. It's on German state TV and everything. Should they put that in the article? Hang on, say a couple of people (one of them German), the sub-titles do not match what the guy is saying. It's got nothing to do with chemtrails....

But you just know that video clip will be used as "proof" and footnoted by the Atlantis Rising people for decades to come.

[Wicky]

The chemtrailers are obsessed there is barium sprayed down from up top based on a news report in 2007

Pause for a second, and consider if you left a bowl out for the month of August in rural Arkansas, what would you expect to find in it after a month? Some dirty water? Perhaps a little dust? What’s dust made of outdoor? Dirt, dried topsoil. What would you expect to find in the dirt in Arkansas – one of the richest sources of barium in the US? You’d expect a bit of Barium – but did they actually find any more than you’d get in tap water?

This page helps debunks the notion

http://contrailscience.com/barium-chemtrails/

[Stalins Organ]

Yep - seen all those sites - they're great - posted a few times under "Mike"......