Affentitten Posted October 4, 2010 Share Posted October 4, 2010 Discovered quite by chance today that I had a great grandfather who was KIA in WW1. I was unaware of this before because he (obviously) and his wife died before my own father was born and therefore they didn't figure in his life as grandparents. He is James BERRY listed on my father's family grave in London as KIA on 20/8/18. The only thing close to that on CWGC is a J BERRY S/28364 of 1st Rifles KIA on 21/8/18. The Rifles would be a reasonable punt, given that he would have been a Londoner but it would be nice to know if that really was him so I can make a visit to the cemetery next time I am in France. So British records grogs, how do I get to the next level of service record? What would be a sure indicator is if he has an address in the Greenwich to Woolwich vicinity. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmar Bijlsma Posted October 4, 2010 Share Posted October 4, 2010 It does seem very likely that guy is your great grandfather you are looking for. Wouldn't the regimental museum have more on him? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pak_43 Posted October 4, 2010 Share Posted October 4, 2010 Yep, I'd recommend contacting the regimental museum. They should have the regimental rolls etc. and probably a copy of his paybook etc. The Rifles seem to have their war diaries online and the originals are at the PRO at Kew. I note you can view the 20th and 21st of August 1918... Their enquiries page is at: https://www.thewardrobe.org.uk/archive.php Edit, that might not be the right rifles actually.. be worth checking out which regiment he was in...sorry! Let us know how you get on! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted October 5, 2010 Share Posted October 5, 2010 I think that's part of the problem - Aff doesn't know which unit (or Corps, even, I assume) he was in. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Affentitten Posted October 5, 2010 Author Share Posted October 5, 2010 1 Bn Rifle Brigade. That is to say, I know from the CWGC database that this person roughly matches the date of death that is provided on the family headstone. But the best proof I could have is details of place of enlistment, address etc. The only other CWGC hit of that name that is close to the date is from a Liverpool regiment, so he would be a less likely contender given the London origin of the family. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pak_43 Posted October 5, 2010 Share Posted October 5, 2010 I believe the best place to start would be the Royal Green Jacket museum (apparently the spiritual home of the Rifle Brigade) There's a research page here and an addy for the curator to contact him. http://www.rgjmuseum.co.uk/research.asp 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackhorse Posted October 5, 2010 Share Posted October 5, 2010 1 Bn Rifle Brigade. That is to say, I know from the CWGC database that this person roughly matches the date of death that is provided on the family headstone. But the best proof I could have is details of place of enlistment, address etc. The only other CWGC hit of that name that is close to the date is from a Liverpool regiment, so he would be a less likely contender given the London origin of the family. I've found these sites to be invaluable for this sort of research: http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?act=idx http://www.1914-1918.net/ http://gmic.co.uk/ Good Luck! Let us know what you learn! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackhorse Posted October 5, 2010 Share Posted October 5, 2010 Also, what are his parents' names? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackhorse Posted October 5, 2010 Share Posted October 5, 2010 Regimental History of the London Rifles: http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/25932.bibrec.html (it only seems to go to the end of 1916 however) maybe there is another edition? Search Results for London Rifles on the 1914-1918 site: http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?app=core&module=search&do=search&fromMainBar=1 (If you cannot see these, then you should register and log-in at the site) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wodin Posted October 5, 2010 Share Posted October 5, 2010 I tracked a great great Uncle down over the net Dominic Costa...he won the MM in 1917 and was killed in April 1918...1/7 Kings Liverpool Regiment...amazing the internet at times...someone on another forum even managed to get me the London Gazzette page online that had his MM mentioned. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackhorse Posted October 5, 2010 Share Posted October 5, 2010 I got it: I think this is your relative.... From "Soldiers Who Died" DB. JAMES BERRY Regiment, Corps etc Rifle Brigade (The Prince Consort's Own) Battalion/etc 1st Battalion. Details Surname Berry Christian Name James Initials J Born Borough, Surrey Enlisted Woolwich Residence Greenwich, Kent Rank RIFLEMAN Number S/28364 Died Date 20/08/1918 Died How Killed in action Theatre of War France & Flanders 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackhorse Posted October 5, 2010 Share Posted October 5, 2010 Affen, Send me your email and I'll forward you the official copy. Regards, BH 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Affentitten Posted October 5, 2010 Author Share Posted October 5, 2010 Have PMed you. Amazing work. No doubt about it then given that the family are Greenwich based for generations. (I happen to have a very lovely silver rose bowl presented to one of this man's daughters (my great aunt) from the officers of the Royal Naval College for her 40 odd years of service as a charwoman!) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted October 5, 2010 Share Posted October 5, 2010 I tracked a great great Uncle down over the net Yep. I came across this recently: which was kind-of exciting I have Ron Sowden's cigarette lighter and case, made from the aluminium of a crashed a/c by an Italian PW. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Affentitten Posted October 5, 2010 Author Share Posted October 5, 2010 Yes it's very exciting considering I didn't even know about this man until a few days ago. Now I have Rifles, RA and Gordons in the family. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted October 6, 2010 Share Posted October 6, 2010 Now I have RA in the family. I knew you were basically a good egg. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted October 6, 2010 Share Posted October 6, 2010 I knew you were basically a good egg. Even if a bit scrambled. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMLE Posted October 6, 2010 Share Posted October 6, 2010 Affentitten, I have found his service record for you. You are lucky his was one of the few to survive the blitz, if a bit singed. Looks like he landed in France on 23rd May 1918 and was killed on 20th August. Let me have your email and I'll forward you a copy. Carl 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackhorse Posted October 6, 2010 Share Posted October 6, 2010 Poor lad. He didn't last very long. Less than three months, with some initial time spent at Etaples proir to heading to the Front. Affen, If you could somehow get a copy of the 1st Bn's War Diary, you could see what actions occurred on 20 Aug 1918 that led to your relative's being KIA. SMLE, can you help with that? Nice work on the Service Record, by the way. How were you able to locate it? BH 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMLE Posted October 6, 2010 Share Posted October 6, 2010 Looking more closely at the record he was a 36 tear old tea blender with 2 kids when he enlisted and was actually wounded in 1917, GSW left thigh, and was evacuated home before returning to France in May 1918 for the last time. 16 Pages of records including correspondence with his widow about his medals and effects. Found them on Ancestry.co.uk, quite rare to find a complete set as most were destroyed in the blitz. Regards. Carl 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackhorse Posted October 6, 2010 Share Posted October 6, 2010 Looking more closely at the record he was a 36 tear old tea blender with 2 kids when he enlisted and was actually wounded in 1917, GSW left thigh, and was evacuated home before returning to France in May 1918 for the last time. 16 Pages of records including correspondence with his widow about his medals and effects. Found them on Ancestry.co.uk, quite rare to find a complete set as most were destroyed in the blitz. Regards. Carl Fascinating. What year did he enlist? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Affentitten Posted October 6, 2010 Author Share Posted October 6, 2010 Looking more closely at the record he was a 36 tear old tea blender with 2 kids when he enlisted and was actually wounded in 1917, GSW left thigh, and was evacuated home before returning to France in May 1918 for the last time. 16 Pages of records including correspondence with his widow about his medals and effects. Found them on Ancestry.co.uk, quite rare to find a complete set as most were destroyed in the blitz. Regards. Carl And the two kids were my paternal grandmother and her sister, the aforementioned char lady at the Royal Naval College. Tea blender is an interesting profession, but one that makes sense given their residence in the heart of the British maritime industry. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMLE Posted October 6, 2010 Share Posted October 6, 2010 I'm out all day tomorrow so won't have a chance to have a proper read but I've sent Affentitten the file by email so he perhaps he can answer any queries. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackhorse Posted October 6, 2010 Share Posted October 6, 2010 Affen, What year did he enlist? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Affentitten Posted October 6, 2010 Author Share Posted October 6, 2010 The records SMLE sent me say Nov of 1916. WIA in September 1917 and then Returned to active service in May 1918 before KIA August 1918. Although he was KIA with the 1st Btn, the bulk of his time was with 10th. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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