Seeking Brit WW1 casualty

[Affentitten]

Discovered quite by chance today that I had a great grandfather who was KIA in WW1. I was unaware of this before because he (obviously) and his wife died before my own father was born and therefore they didn't figure in his life as grandparents.

He is James BERRY listed on my father's family grave in London as KIA on 20/8/18. The only thing close to that on CWGC is a J BERRY S/28364 of 1st Rifles KIA on 21/8/18. The Rifles would be a reasonable punt, given that he would have been a Londoner but it would be nice to know if that really was him so I can make a visit to the cemetery next time I am in France.

So British records grogs, how do I get to the next level of service record? What would be a sure indicator is if he has an address in the Greenwich to Woolwich vicinity.

[Elmar Bijlsma]

It does seem very likely that guy is your great grandfather you are looking for. Wouldn't the regimental museum have more on him?

[Pak_43]

Yep, I'd recommend contacting the regimental museum. They should have the regimental rolls etc. and probably a copy of his paybook etc.

The Rifles seem to have their war diaries online and the originals are at the PRO at Kew. I note you can view the 20th and 21st of August 1918...

Their enquiries page is at:

https://www.thewardrobe.org.uk/archive.php

Edit, that might not be the right rifles actually.. be worth checking out which regiment he was in...sorry!

Let us know how you get on!

[JonS]

I think that's part of the problem - Aff doesn't know which unit (or Corps, even, I assume) he was in.

[Affentitten]

1 Bn Rifle Brigade.

That is to say, I know from the CWGC database that this person roughly matches the date of death that is provided on the family headstone. But the best proof I could have is details of place of enlistment, address etc. The only other CWGC hit of that name that is close to the date is from a Liverpool regiment, so he would be a less likely contender given the London origin of the family.

[Pak_43]

I believe the best place to start would be the Royal Green Jacket museum (apparently the spiritual home of the Rifle Brigade)

There's a research page here and an addy for the curator to contact him.

http://www.rgjmuseum.co.uk/research.asp

[Blackhorse]

1 Bn Rifle Brigade.

That is to say, I know from the CWGC database that this person roughly matches the date of death that is provided on the family headstone. But the best proof I could have is details of place of enlistment, address etc. The only other CWGC hit of that name that is close to the date is from a Liverpool regiment, so he would be a less likely contender given the London origin of the family.

I've found these sites to be invaluable for this sort of research:

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?act=idx

http://www.1914-1918.net/

http://gmic.co.uk/

Good Luck! Let us know what you learn!

[Blackhorse]

Also, what are his parents' names?

[Blackhorse]

Regimental History of the London Rifles: http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/25932.bibrec.html

(it only seems to go to the end of 1916 however) maybe there is another edition?

Search Results for London Rifles on the 1914-1918 site: http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?app=core&module=search&do=search&fromMainBar=1

(If you cannot see these, then you should register and log-in at the site)

[Wodin]

I tracked a great great Uncle down over the net Dominic Costa...he won the MM in 1917 and was killed in April 1918...1/7 Kings Liverpool Regiment...amazing the internet at times...someone on another forum even managed to get me the London Gazzette page online that had his MM mentioned.

[Blackhorse]

I got it:

I think this is your relative....

From "Soldiers Who Died" DB.

JAMES BERRY

Regiment, Corps etc

Rifle Brigade (The Prince Consort's Own)

Battalion/etc

1st Battalion. Details

Surname

Berry

Christian Name

James

Initials

J

Born

Borough, Surrey

Enlisted

Woolwich

Residence

Greenwich, Kent

Rank

RIFLEMAN

Number

S/28364

Died Date

20/08/1918

Died How

Killed in action

Theatre of War

France & Flanders

[Blackhorse]

Affen,

Send me your email and I'll forward you the official copy.

Regards,

BH

[Affentitten]

Have PMed you.

Amazing work. No doubt about it then given that the family are Greenwich based for generations. (I happen to have a very lovely silver rose bowl presented to one of this man's daughters (my great aunt) from the officers of the Royal Naval College for her 40 odd years of service as a charwoman!)

[JonS]

I tracked a great great Uncle down over the net

Yep. I came across this recently:

which was kind-of exciting

I have Ron Sowden's cigarette lighter and case, made from the aluminium of a crashed a/c by an Italian PW.

[Affentitten]

Yes it's very exciting considering I didn't even know about this man until a few days ago. Now I have Rifles, RA and Gordons in the family.

[JonS]

Now I have RA in the family.

I knew you were basically a good egg.

[Michael Emrys]

I knew you were basically a good egg.

Even if a bit scrambled.

Michael

[SMLE]

Affentitten,

I have found his service record for you. You are lucky his was one of the few to survive the blitz, if a bit singed.

Looks like he landed in France on 23rd May 1918 and was killed on 20th August.

Let me have your email and I'll forward you a copy.

Carl

[Blackhorse]

Poor lad. He didn't last very long. Less than three months, with some initial time spent at Etaples proir to heading to the Front.

Affen,

If you could somehow get a copy of the 1st Bn's War Diary, you could see what actions occurred on 20 Aug 1918 that led to your relative's being KIA.

SMLE,

can you help with that? Nice work on the Service Record, by the way. How were you able to locate it?

BH

[SMLE]

Looking more closely at the record he was a 36 tear old tea blender with 2 kids when he enlisted and was actually wounded in 1917, GSW left thigh, and was evacuated home before returning to France in May 1918 for the last time.

16 Pages of records including correspondence with his widow about his medals and effects.

Found them on Ancestry.co.uk, quite rare to find a complete set as most were destroyed in the blitz.

Regards.

Carl

[Blackhorse]

Looking more closely at the record he was a 36 tear old tea blender with 2 kids when he enlisted and was actually wounded in 1917, GSW left thigh, and was evacuated home before returning to France in May 1918 for the last time.

16 Pages of records including correspondence with his widow about his medals and effects.

Found them on Ancestry.co.uk, quite rare to find a complete set as most were destroyed in the blitz.

Regards.

Carl

Fascinating. What year did he enlist?

[Affentitten]

Looking more closely at the record he was a 36 tear old tea blender with 2 kids when he enlisted and was actually wounded in 1917, GSW left thigh, and was evacuated home before returning to France in May 1918 for the last time.

16 Pages of records including correspondence with his widow about his medals and effects.

Found them on Ancestry.co.uk, quite rare to find a complete set as most were destroyed in the blitz.

Regards.

Carl

And the two kids were my paternal grandmother and her sister, the aforementioned char lady at the Royal Naval College. Tea blender is an interesting profession, but one that makes sense given their residence in the heart of the British maritime industry.

[SMLE]

I'm out all day tomorrow so won't have a chance to have a proper read but I've sent Affentitten the file by email so he perhaps he can answer any queries.

[Blackhorse]

Affen,

What year did he enlist?

[Affentitten]

The records SMLE sent me say Nov of 1916. WIA in September 1917 and then Returned to active service in May 1918 before KIA August 1918. Although he was KIA with the 1st Btn, the bulk of his time was with 10th.