How much equipment got lost in battle?

[Joachim]

you need to consider national doctrine as well. not all weapons are born equal. some are privileged and considered more important than the others. for example for Germans it were the MGs and mortars. guys with rifles were little more than glorified ammo bearers. as long as there was one man left, the MG was firing. leaving the MG was probably considered something unthinkable.

If the MG covers the withdrawal into a second line, then the duty of the gunners is done once ammo runs out or their comrades have reached the fallback. A "fresh" MG might await the m-gunners. So it would be more important for the gunners to reach the fallback fast and alive than carry the MG.

In an unorganized withdrawal, the gunners would more likely defend the MG. But if the MG is the last fighting weapon, then riflemen will have a much better chance to escape. Which would lead to a higher proportion of MG losses vs riflemen, too.

Ammo bearers that already delivered their ammo might not return to a crew killed MG. Hey, it's not their job.

Keeping up a high level of hvy weapons can be done by keeping the ones that are there or supplying fresh ones. A good doctrine would encourage both. Supplying a new MG is easier than supplying a good gunner.

German Cav covering a withdrawal would operate as follows: 1/3rd covers withdrawal. 1/3rd moves back. 1/3rd prepares new position. A prepared new position includes supplies.

If you compare front line strength of divisions to the logistical tail of the same (German) division, the rear echelon guys are the majority. They ought to be good for something, too.

Withdrawal means shorter supply lines and the depot might be less reluctant to give away its stock when the enemy is closing in.

That's theory. Dunno about the real thing.

[undead reindeer cavalry]

A "fresh" MG might await the m-gunners.

they have something else waiting as well, if they just left the MG and run

So it would be more important for the gunners to reach the fallback fast and alive than carry the MG.

MG is quite easy to carry. especially something like MG42 that can be broken down to pieces. even a Maxim moves almost at running speed, if you have three guys carrying it.

Ammo bearers that already delivered their ammo might not return to a crew killed MG. Hey, it's not their job.

ammo bearers are members of the squad, section or platoon.

Supplying a new MG is easier than supplying a good gunner.

i wouldn't be so sure about that...

[Joachim]

Hey - we are talking about a retreat. The MG is the last position firing while all others already headed back. They are the last to run. So no court martial.

Almost at running speed is not as good as running speed.

As stated above - the last to run might carry their wounded before they carry a gun. Medics ran before and already should be busy anyway.

Ammo bearers are members of a group. Groups share resposibility. Shared responsibility often means no one is responsible. If you are 50m from a MG position and the crew gets killed by lots of incoming - head towards the enemy or head backwards, hoping someone else will take up the gun? Of course someone might order you to take over the MG. Then you might try. But if 1 or 2 from the "fresh crew" sent over become a casualty, that attempt will be abandoned.

Producing a new gunner takes 9 month plus several years. Producing a MG takes less time. It weighs less so transport is easier. You need somebody to handle the crate, but the gunner needs food and water while he travels, so some handling, too.

[undead reindeer cavalry]

yes, if your positions are overrun i am not suggesting someone would go in just to rescue the MG.

[coe]

wow so MGs would actually be the last to pull out? I thought you'd want to have the HMGs a little bit further back so it could constantly pull back and set up again and not have to pull out under fire...

[Joachim]

Well, the idea is to not pull out the MG, just the crew... when things are really hot.

Doesn't work in CM.