First German Mission (spoiler alert)

[Rapier]

Played the first german mission on normal setting. I won the mission comfortably - my losses were 2 men from a scout team, 1 aircraft shot down and 2 panthers were tracked but no tank crews hurt.

The game and scenario ran nicely throughout and I did enjoy the battle. However, a number of things occurred that seemed strange.

After setup I began by crawling 2x 4 man scout teams forward to look over the ridge line. This is post patch so the scouts have their 90 scouting ability. I also had the men hold fire. Unfortunately, all this achieved was the deaths of 2 scouts. Russian artillery targetted them and eventually killed 2 men. At no stage was any infantry or artillery visible on the russian ridge. This doesn't seem right to me.

I folowed up by moving my 4 panthers across to the eastern side (right hand) of the map and moved forward approximately where the road travels north crossing the anti-tank ditch. As my tanks came through the trees they received significant incoming fire. Multiple targets appeared and the panthers began engaging. I don't really see why infantry, HMGs and artillery all became visible once the panthers appeared but nothing when my scout infantry were being fired upon.

I moved 2 panzer IVs and 2 stugs on to the ridge to join the ensuing duel. The duel turned out to be fairly one-sided with only 1 panther sustaining damage to its tracks. Once I gained 500 points I was given artillery support that proved extremely deadly.

However, the game dynamic for artillery support seems strange. When I spend 500 points I can click the artillery button. Right clicking a target is no problem. Obviously I don't want to expend all artillery on the same target. Left clicking the support button stops the firing but the button becomes greyed out and un-usable again. When I accrue a second 500 points the button becomes active again. Pressing the button to re-target a new location for my artillery does not cost another 500 - I just can't re-target unless I have accrued the 500 points again. That doesn't seem right to me.

Ground attack aircraft support cost 1300. The support was ok but did really seem worth the cost. A second wave of aircraft also cost 1300. I lost one aircraft to a HMG (I'm guessing as the russians had no AA guns). This cost me a further 500 victory points.

Quick question regarding the vistory points: Are they used to allocate resources for the next mission? For example: If I hadn't used my 2 airstrikes and had completed the mission with the same outcome would I have 3100 extra points (2x 1300 airstrikes + 1x 500 downed aircraft = 3100) to spend on the next mission?

After dealing with most of the russian artillery I tried to cross the anti-tank ditch. Counter intuitively I couldn't get my tanks to cross where the road crosses the ditch. The next crossing to the west proved adequate. I managed to get 2 panthers across before the third panther was tracked right on the crossing. Not sure what disbaled it. However, the 2 remaining panthers with supporting fire from my ridge proved adequate for clearing the russian trenches. I brought up a unit of infantry to capture the first objective.

Holding the town (second objective) proved very easy. The 6 russian tanks in the counter-attack were dispatched with no losses to my men.

In summary:

1. I don't see why my scout teams can't see artillery firing at them?

2. Why did all manner of russian units become visible once the artillery started firing at my panthers?

3. Is the dynamic of how artillery support is called working as intended?

4. Do victory points inside a mission relate to available points for the following mission?

5. Why couldn't my tanks cross the AT ditch using the clearly visible road?

Any replies to these questions would be appreciated.

[robecq]

Playing that first level on normal, my men get squashed!!

[phil stanbridge]

You make some very good points, I hope those that be can answer them.

I just won an unconditional victory on the same scenario, playing normal with morale. I lost one PzIII but all the crew survived, 33 infantry KIA and 1 aircraft shot down. I had one Panther lose a track.

I had the same problem with artillery support. In the demo you could stop and start at your convenience which seems about right - now, you lose the ability to replan the mission unless you have 500 points to spare. This needs fixing.

Infantry get mowed down quickly unless you can find cover. You have to sneak them everywhere. I lost my entire scout team to possible mortar fire.

Out of interest what has happened to all those hit point identifiers that were in the demo? You could see what hit you, and where.

[Sneaksie]

Hit point vectors should be available like in demo, press F4 to select one of the modes.

[Knokke]

[WARNING: POSSIBLE SPOILER]

I lost my entire scout team to possible mortar fire.

About the scouts losses being caused by possible mortar fire:

I had some losses occuring in the same way, but I believe it is caused by the guys crossing a minefield instead of mortar rounds being targeted at them: explosions where located right under the feet of my soldiers (if it had been mortar fire, the impacts would have been more random, and not right on top of every soldier killed).

Most of my men where able to cross the minefield by sneaking through it, but I suffered several losses before I realized what was happening. That's the interest of keeping smart pause on, despite the annoying change of camera angle - by the way, this shoud really be changed in a patch: the game should pause and the camera should switch to the position where the loss occured, but after resuming the game, the camera should go back to its previous position, and not stay where the loss occured, thus releaving us of the tedious task of relocating the camera each time someone dies.

the third panther was tracked right on the crossing. Not sure what disbaled it.

Probably the same thing: the Panther started to cross the minefield and probably detonated a few anti-personel mines (hence the impression it is being targeted) untill it hit an anti-tank mine that damaged the tracks.

I had one Pz-III and one Panther trying the road crossing with no succes, but crossing without problem at the place you mention (so the density of AT-mines was probably lower than that of AP-mines, or they just where lucky to avoid the minefield). I decided to do the same maneuver with a Tiger, and it followed approximately the same path, but very soon, a succession of small explosions appeared under its tracks (at first, I thought it was targeted by a fast firing AA gun) untill a bigger one occured that untracked it. It has most probably hit an AT-mine.

[phil stanbridge]

[WARNING: POSSIBLE SPOILER]

About the scouts losses being caused by possible mortar fire:

I had some losses occuring in the same way, but I believe it is caused by the guys crossing a minefield instead of mortar rounds being targeted at them: explosions where located right under the feet of my soldiers (if it had been mortar fire, the impacts would have been more random, and not right on top of every soldier killed).

Most of my men where able to cross the minefield by sneaking through it, but I suffered several losses before I realized what was happening. That's the interest of keeping smart pause on, despite the annoying change of camera angle - by the way, this shoud really be changed in a patch: the game should pause and the camera should switch to the position where the loss occured, but after resuming the game, the camera should go back to its previous position, and not stay where the loss occured, thus releaving us of the tedious task of relocating the camera each time someone dies.

I didn't think that it could have been a minefield! You may be right. Next time I will press F4 to see if it shows up on the hit indicator. I lost two of my scouts the same way, over the same or similar ground, by one of the crossings across the anti-tank ditch. I couldn't see how it could have been fire directed at them because one, they were scouts, hidden, and two they were crawling. Nobody had direct line of sight, so I put it down to indirect mortar fire, but then, these were small explosions. Mines probably is correct!

[OTZ]

Some vehicles just get bogged down in that marshy area. I had three tanks and APCs stuck that way. There are minefields for sure near the ravine as well.

If you check the message box it may help decipher what has happened.

[laika]

Noob question. This is my first TOW game but i also did play the first German mission and i saw there are minefields because my scout squat walked over them and died. Now how to disarm minefields in this game. I tryed to use a engineering squat but no help. Is it only possible to disarm minefields with indirect morter fire?

And another question is about spotting. I read some other threads and alot more peeps have problems with spotting. In my first german mission i sneaked with a scout team and a sniper and they only spoyted the AT guns when they are on the edge of the trench in aprrox 20 meters. Also on the hill on the west side of the map (trenches not in the woods) they only spotted the AT guns when in the trenches or on the edge of the trenches. This is not very realistic in my opinion.

[Knokke]

Is it only possible to disarm minefields with indirect morter fire?

Not really sure if the soldiers are really disarming the mines, or just avoiding them, but here is how to proceed:

As soon as you get your first casualty from a mine, have your entire squad laying down. If they're crawling, they can start progressing through the minefield with a better chance of survival. It's not working all the time, ability to spot mines successfully depends on a high intelligence score of the soldier.

An other way of clearing a path for infantry is by firing heavy artillery shells at the estimated position of the minefield in the hope that the concussion will detonate the mines.

An other more risky way is to drive through the minefield with a heavy tank. It will detonate the mines if he rolls over them. Risky, because chances are high that the minefield is a mix of anti-personel and anti-tank mines.

As for the hill on the western side of the map, I was able to spot the guns there (and the others in the center) with my scout squad while a Panther acted as a decoy to attract ennemy fire, and to put them out of action with mortar fire, and area fire from tanks positioned hull down in the woods on top of the hill. I had two squads trying to sneak to the left of this western hill to attack the trenches from behind, but though they were able to see the infantry in the trenches, none of them was able to return fire, and they started being decimated, so I decided to retreat to my starting position. I still don't understand why they were able to see the ennemy but not being able to shoot at them, while at the same time the soldiers in the trenches were able to do a massacre.