Anti aircraft question?

[CSS]

The airforces do seem to dominate the game , a veteran Luftwaffe can kill nearly anything. So does the anti aircraft in cities defend VS all or only Strategic?

[Emperor Elliott]

Just stratigic (look at the combat vaules table when you upgrade)

Hope this clears up the problem.

[SeaMonkey]

I've been trying to get Hubert and the Betas to "see the light" on this aaa question.

Sure ... it needs to be approached with caution, but if you combined the infantry weapons and anti-tank research into one "heavy weapons" category then you would have that extra slot for anti-air upgrades. The CTVs would need some adjusting and I would also like to see all air units with double strikes.

Believe me, with the MPP expense and the weather patterns that preclude usage you could effectively reign in omnipotent air. Of course in clear weather and terrain there would be one hellish blitzkrieg going on inconjunction with those double strike tanks.

Also....think about it, you could cut back on the number of air units in the hard build limits and unclutter the map a bit.

[privatedrew]

I agree. I think AA should be an upgrade purchase option for any infantry unit (including HQ's) to give them a better shot against air units. It really makes sense as an upgradable attribute of the unit, like infantry weapons.

[SeaMonkey]

Crap! Here it is a month later and finally I get someone to share my vision for a better SC. Isn't it funny that there are no comments to this suggestion that I have laid out in detail? Could it be that no one has a viable basis for refute because it makes too much sense?

Well at least David has signed on somewhat to the "movement", his WiF mod seems to play out very well, but it remains for Hubert to create our slot and make the adjustments to the air units.

Silence.....my old friend!

[xwormwood]

SeaMonkey, i tend to disagree on this one.

If you create "heavy weapons", than why the heck shouldn't be AA within that category?

The more logical step would be to allow land / air units to get the AA tech via unit upgrade.

I don't need and i don't want the AA unit on mapscale like in the 1939 campaign.

If playing in the Nupremal ubermap, well, that would be another story (end even there the AA upgrade would be the more elegant solution).

[SeaMonkey]

Now this goes to show exactly what I'm referring to as x has obviously misunderstood my whole presentation. I'm not talking, haven't been talking about a specific unit for the aa feature, it is an upgrade. Thing is you have to create a slot for it and you only have 3 slots available for tech upgrade categories, that is why you need to join the IW and AT into heavy weapons. Now I'm open to another way to get this done, just remember this aa upgrade needs to be applicable to ports, cities, villages, etc. as well as land units and I'd just as soon it would be separated from the NW tech for naval surface units also, how about NW, ASW, and AA?

The idea is to create another parameter of interaction between attacking and defending units and if we move into a more contemporary setting then obviously we'll need to represent surface to air missiles as they are a very effective defense against air units. It is absolutely inexcusable for anti-air to not be an effective counter against ground attacking fighter and TAC SC air units in this game, what a monumental oversight!

This all goes along with a further expansion of air unit capabilities also as you will be able to customize your air units more thoroughly. Imagine you build a bomber, now you can choose, do you want it to be strategically oriented or more tactically capable of supporting ground units like interdicting the defenders logistical tail. You have the three upgradeable categories, SB, GS(ground support) and LR. OK ...you want some fighter bombers.....anybody ever heard of those...well they are not in SC. You build fighters with advanced air for the air superiority role and you can allocate some of the group to GS, and then there is LR also. Choices for the players....you guys like choices?:confused:

Now don't get me wrong, the GS provision is not as effective for bombers as it would be for fighter-bombers, which in turn would not be as effective as the TAC is now in the GS mission, but all of them would be subject to be shot down by the aa upgradeable, ground unit tech category. Am I clear now...can we see the light?

You think there is a problem with the double strike feature applied to air units even though is represents the nature of their reactivity vs ground units, ask yourself, which units are the fastest responders? Who's faster, Tanks(which have twin attacks) or fighter planes? Trick question.....Duhhhh??? You think when you use your fighter-bombers in the ground support role and they take some massive losses from a high teched AA ground unit you're going to choose to initiate the second strike and take a chance of losing the unit?

This is not space science, we're not replacing someone's brain here, surely you SC veterans can visualize this feature interaction? And lastly....someone tell me this is not a realistic representation of WW2 warfare....please!

[xwormwood]

Oops, sorry, SeaMonkey, i misunderstood you indeed, my mistake!

[arado234]

SeaMonkey what you say makes total sense but imho the A.A.upgrade for ground units should be seperate(Im guessing this would create a programing issue?).Heavy weapons for inf.included all aspects of their defensive and offensive capabilities against various ground targets.I would think you would need a seperate upgrade all together?Im also hoping this would include armoured units.They need it the most.

As far as the whole tac-bomber fighter-fighter idea(it is more realistic)but then you would get into if the fighter-bombers are attacked by enemy fighters do the fighter-bombers have to drop their bombs instantly or face total destruction(having a couple of 500 or 1000lb bombs under their belly would make them pretty helpless against a fighter attack).I guess you could program it so you had the option?

[Emperor Elliott]

Is it possable to add any new units to the game. like have more then the standard units.

[SeaMonkey]

a234, of course all these upgrades are separate tech categories....that isn't clear?:confused:

Remember arado, these SC units represent a group, a wing, a massing of different types of aircraft. All you're doing is customizing the allocations. Why wouldn't the FBs be escorted by advanced fighters if both categories have been upgraded, the unit is not all of one type aircraft and they can perform various missions, mixing or being specific to certain mission sorties defined by the player.

Why should carriers have the only ability to mix missions? Actually if you want to get right down to it you could have only one SC land based aircraft unit. By selecting the upgrades, adv-air for air superiority role, TAC for ground support, or strategic bombers for the SAC role you could customize specifically or mix the wing for the mission(s) you wish. Of course we'd need that 4th category for the LR feature, but that's for another game.

[Nupremal]

That is why I came to the conclusion AA units need to stay in the game - I noticed right away that tac bombers will get out of control as their tech levels go up - if you allow 5 AT upgrades they get too strong and there is no "counter-balance" i.e. since there is no increase in defense the new balancing rules dont work

[arado234]

I guess I shouldnt be commenting to much yet about this game since I cant freakin-well play it yet because because my computer has ISSUES.

[SeaMonkey]

WTH arado!:eek: Reformat the HD, stick it with more RAM, surely this can't be good for your quality of life, damn PCs are so cheap now......you really don't have an excuse.:confused:

[Colin I]

We need more AA protection but there really shouldn't be separate AA units at this scale.

Better to double intercept from fighters. Second to make slightly cheaper and/or numerous.

In the long term I second SeaMonkey - AA upgrade on units.

[Bluestew]

I could probably be talked into just about any idea that the designer would be willing to implement and that would nerf tac bombers a bit. They are just TOO dang poweful. Allowing AA upgrades, double fighter intercepts, etc are all fine by me.