Suggestions to BF as regard as victory's parameters

[ferpa1967]

I created a battle with 3 different plans and I found out that the parameters logic is not optimal with the multiple plans option .

Example for a battle where Blues attack :

AI Red plan A) : the reds make a little or no counterattack

AI Red plan : the reds obtain reinforcement so they are able to do a great counterattack

It's clear that in case A) the blue friendly casualties will be usually lower than in case , so in case A) the victory parameter for friendly casualties < 10% is right minded, in case not

The same victory parameter for more than a AI plan is ok if the new AI plan is very little different, but if there are only little differences why spending time doing it ?

So I think It should be better a specific victory parameter for every AI plan, that is in the case A) the victory parameter for friendly casualties < 10%, in the case friendly casualties < 30%

Thanks for your time.

[MarkEzra]

Interesting Observation.

[rune]

To answer your question, because a little change can change the way the battle plays. I may use the same forces, but ai plan 1 i have the enemy defend the first line of defense till xx time then withdraw to line 2, where reinforcements arrive.

plan II i have them withdraw immediately, and with the same forces try to sucker the enemy into a trap, but with the same forces as plan I

plan III I set ambushes, then withdraw, then ambush, the withdraw, etc. Again, same forces different tactic.

Well worth multiple ai plans, even if the same victory conditions. Replay a scenario and it could change each time [well, up to 5 anyway]

Rune

[Lethaface]

Although I never really finished a scenario in the editor I can agree both with Rune and Ferpa1967;

There is quite a lot of variation possible with the current editor. However I guess that adding different victory conditions for different AI plans shouldn't be too much of a hassle. It can bring a LOT more variation in missions though! I hope we can see this in game after not too long...

[TheVulture]

Example for a battle where Blues attack :

AI Red plan A) : the reds make a little or no counterattack

AI Red plan : the reds obtain reinforcement so they are able to do a great counterattack

But there is only one possible way the reinforcements can be. No matter which AI plan is chosen, red force has the same reinforcements and same units. Now you can have an AI plan that has the red 'reinforcements' skulking in a little hole out of the way of the action if you want, but the red force has the same units allotted to it either way.

[ferpa1967]

Thanks to all for the replay

Rune your retreating example is very interesting and surely I will remember it for next battle I will create, anyway I'm only half in agreement with you .

Because you implicity are assuming that all your 5 AI plans are likewise good, so in short for you the rule is same troops, different AI planes, same chance of success .

According to me usually it's not so. There is ever a better AI plan for the battle maker, and the chance of success for the player in that plan are lesser than for the others plans. So the victory parameter should be different .

In this matter there are a lot of other subtle implications that you know better than me, for example programming an AI attack plan the battlemaker can assuming the attacker dont know exactly the defender's force and the position so he can choose to set up a suboptimal but more realistic attack, or can simulate a delay and so on .

In short Rune, I think with the same troops it's possible making different and interesting AI plans but usually more are different these plans more different are the chance for the player .

[ferpa1967]

But there is only one possible way the reinforcements can be. No matter which AI plan is chosen, red force has the same reinforcements and same units. Now you can have an AI plan that has the red 'reinforcements' skulking in a little hole out of the way of the action if you want, but the red force has the same units allotted to it either way.

You are right Thevulture, but dont watch the finger

[rune]

Ferpa,

Not argueing, matter of fact I asked for something simular years ago when cmsf was in beta. However, you asked why would you use different ai plans, which I hope i showed. Play ash shammas, you hopefully will get a different ai plan when you play. Some have different defenses, and one has the enemy advancing to counter attack, which may or may not work depending on how far the Blue player had gotten. However, I will say this, given the choice between trigger points and different victory conditions, I'll go for the trigger points.

Rune

[afreu]

Yep, triggers it should be.