pad152 Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 Is there an option to stop tech trading? I've always found that when playing against multiple AI's opponents the tech trading can get out of hand when all of the AI start trading tech, greatly out placing the human player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martok Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 Also (speaking of diplomacy), can you have an "allied" victory in EoS? Or will you have to wipe out everyone else in order to win? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brit Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 Is there an option to stop tech trading? No, tech-trading is always available. I've always found that when playing against multiple AI's opponents the tech trading can get out of hand when all of the AI start trading tech, greatly out placing the human player. That doesn't really happen in the games. Also, based on past experiences in multiplayer games, there was a barrier added to tech trading. I didn't want it to get too out-of-hand. When players trade technology, what they are trading is a technology "hint". The technology hint means that you can research the technology twice as fast. From a more "real world" perspective, you could say that your scientists needed some time to fully understand the new technologies they were given to you from your neighbors. Functionally, what this means that four players working together can't get technologies 4x as fast as one player (which would allow them to research the entire tech-tree very quickly). Assuming everything is equal, two players working together can research 1.33x as one player (instead of 2x), and three players can research 1.5x as one player (instead of 3x). Historically, this makes some sense, too, because two nations who are allies didn't automatically get all the best technologies from their allies (e.g. Italian tanks weren't as good as German tanks, even though they were allies in World War 2). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brit Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 Also (speaking of diplomacy), can you have an "allied" victory in EoS? Or will you have to wipe out everyone else in order to win? Yes, you can form teams with other players. These teams can be formed during the game, and the game ends if all remaining players are part of the same team. It only made sense to allow teams for historical reasons (e.g. if you're playing a World War 2 game with five players, the American, British, and Russian players shouldn't have to fight it out once the Axis has been defeated). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EoS Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 The game is great! The more I play, the more I like the game. I have noticed a small bug in technologies trade with AI. AI agrees to receive a technology hint which it already has. I swapped with AI (Zhukov) the tech hint "Electronics 1" twice: on turn 19 and on turn 25. The player can too receive a hint which already owns. It is necessary to supervise hints always, that not buy they twice. I offer: 1. to exclude a technology from the technologies trade list if you already has a hint for it. 2. to display hints in the list of known technologies (for example as not checked checkbox) It seems a hint give a very big bonus. It would be better to make the bonus variable in rules from 0 % (deactivated) to 25% / 50% / 75% / 100% (now). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brit Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 The game is great! The more I play, the more I like the game. I have noticed a small bug in technologies trade with AI. AI agrees to receive a technology hint which it already has. I swapped with AI (Zhukov) the tech hint "Electronics 1" twice: on turn 19 and on turn 25. Ah - you're right. The technology hint was a late change in the game. Not everything was updated correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EoS Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 There is one more minor bug. Trade is possible even if players are at war. I have noticed that AI trades if cost of the offered technologies is more as cost of the requested technologies. Thus has no importance: - is the technology unique (the science should cost less if it is already investigated by other players) - what relations between AI and the player (for allies a cost lower). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John DiFool the 2nd Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 Is there an option to stop tech trading? I've always found that when playing against multiple AI's opponents the tech trading can get out of hand when all of the AI start trading tech, greatly out placing the human player. This seriously needs to be streamlined. While they can undoubtedly offer and consummate dozens of tech deals per turn, us poor humans have to slog through every single AI screen in search of that one trade that they'll actually accept. Instead do it like Civ does, and have a button on there for a counteroffer-I contact Rommel, put Biplanes on the table, and see what he'll give me in return (or vice versa-I choose what I want and click the "what do you want for this?" button). As it is tech trading greatly slows down the pace of a game which is otherwise designed to get to that end turn button ASAP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dieseltaylor Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 Sounds a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EoS Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 Yes, the tech trading causes a headache. Your suggestion do not solve this problem. Let's assume, you have technologies A and B, AI has C and D. You want to exchange technology B on C. You request technology C from AI, AI asks technology A. Basically AI would agree to take B but it (or he?) is not able to read your thoughts and consequently a beret the first of the list. It will be similar not always a suitable exchange if you offer technology B. AI can offer technology D. The list of all variants of an exchange is necessary to you but such list will be very long if there are some technologies for an exchange. Therefore by tech trading you should have choice to take and to give technologies which you want. The indicator will prompt to you whether AI agrees an exchange or not. Now this indicator is green if AI agree and red if does not agree. If to add to the technologies list technologies cost and to make an exchange in one window like civ it would simplify. But it is not the main problem. The problem that by free technologies trading, the player who researched a technology the first gets the big advantage because he can trade this technology another and receives at once more hints. Research go on a principle "I research not what me required but what I can sell". This principle take a lot of time. What decision I see. What if tech trading replace with sharing technologies? You are sharing technologies with other player or AI and it allows you (and AI): 1. at once to receive hints for technology which already your partner has researched, 2. to see what technology research your partner (that do not research same technology with the partner without hint). You do not need to count exchange variants, consummate dozens of tech deals per turn, you research that you want. If relations between AIs is neutral AI will be inclined to conclude tech sharing with equal on development AI. More developed AI will reject the tech sharing because it will receive less than to give. If relations between AIs is good tech sharing between two AI can be possible always. On the other hand, if relations between AI is bad tech sharing is impossible. Technology sharing with AI influences on relations with others players and AIs: - it slightly worsens, if before was neutral (that prevent players conclude much tech sharing), - strongly worsens, if the partner has bad relations, - very strongly if is at war and - do not change at all if the partner in friendly relations with other(s) AI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N3rull Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 A hint, for those who didn't notice - there is a square in the upper right corner of the window where you're typing the message. When it's red, the AI will reject. When it goes green, it'll likely accept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EoS Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 Yes, the red-green indicator is there and it works. However there were other bugs. As I have understood technology trade will be fixed in the finish of beta testing. With these bugs is play by rules 1900-2030 almost impossible. I make arrangements in network game not to use these bugs. And all the same, as I have noticed technologies trade takes away a lot of time. Probably if to correct bugs the technologies trade will become simpler. But nevertheless, technologies trade is not finished yet and may be we can consider an alternative model. Sharing technology would easy in use but would not make game less interesting. This my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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