News from the Front (23-June-08): Challenger destroyed by Friendly Fire

[Cpl Steiner]

*** SPOILER WARNING - Don't Read if you haven't got passed the "Crossroads" battle of the Brits Campaign yet ***

BBC 6 O'clock News - 23-June-08:

Presenter:

And now for more news on the invasion of Syria.

The MoD confirmed today that a Challenger 2 main battle tank from B Squadron, Scots Dragoon Guards, was destroyed in a so called "friendly fire" incident yesterday evening whilst taking part in operations to secure several bridges deep in Syrian territory. All 4 crewmen were killed. The families of the dead have been informed. We are joined now by our Defence Editor, Mark Urban, who hopefully will have more information on the incident.

Presenter:

Hi Mark, what more can you tell us?

Mark Urban:

Good evening. Well, my sources tell me the incident occurred sometime after 5pm yesterday evening. A formation of about 7 Challenger 2s had reached a crossroads close to their main objective - the two bridges you mentioned - when they came under concerted attack from the north and west. My sources tell me this was some of the fiercest fighting British forces have been involved in since Korea - perhaps even WWII. Waves of enemy tanks and armoured personnel carriers were assaulting the British position.

Whilst this was going on, enemy infantry had been engaged on top of a low ridge just behind the Challengers to the south-west. Fearing that more enemy armour might launch a surprise attack on the Challengers, a "Forward Air Controller" - or FAC - called in 2 Harrier ground attack aircraft to take a look behind the ridge.

The Harriers arrived on the scene and identified a number of enemy armoured vehicles behind the ridge, knocking out several. In the confusion though, somehow one of the Harrier pilots mistook a Challenger on the other side of the ridge for an enemy tank. Before realising his mistake the pilot had scored a direct hit on the Challenger with a 500kg "Paveway" bomb, totally destroying the tank and killing all 4 crewmen instantly.

At first it wasn't known what had knocked out the Challenger, as there was so much firing going on. However, as the destroyed Challenger was sitting in a large crater, the FAC decided it was possible that a friendly fire incident had occurred and called off the Harriers. Only once the battle was over was this confirmed to be the case when pieces of a Paveway bomb were identified around the wreck.

Presenter:

Thanks Mark. Obviously this is a very serious incident. How will it affect the ongoing campaign?

Mark Urban:

Yes it is serious but in some ways not unexpected. It's a sad reality that in war, such incidents are sometimes unavoidable. Yes, lessons will no doubt be learned, but it probably won't make much difference to the course of the campaign.

Presenter:

We must leave it there. Thanks Mark.

[Smaragdadler]

War is Hell.

[Cpl Steiner]

I was playing the "Crossroads" scenario from the Brits Module campaign when I saw this happen. I can't swear it was friendly fire but it does seem extremely likely given that there was a large bomb-like crater under the Challenger. When I switched to the FAC to check where he was targeting, the large blue area target circle for the Harrier was nearly touching the Challenger. Maybe a few tiles away at the most. I'd inadvertently advanced the Challengers a lot closer to the air-strike area than I'd realised. I called off the attack straight after.

I thought it was worth writing up to show how real this game can sometimes get!

[EDIT] Just added a spoiler warning for those who haven't played this mission yet! Apologies to those who've already read it!

[Fancykiller65]

Nice. Is it real?

[Chainsaw]

Really cool post Cpl Steiner!

Sorry about your Challenger thoe

[Bulgaroktonos]

CM:SF fan fiction? I like it.

[Cpl Steiner]

Nice. Is it real?

Well I was playing in Real-Time rather than Turn-Based mode so I had no way of "watching the replay" to see if the Harrier actually dropped the bomb on the tank but I'm almost 100% sure it must have because the explosion was very large and left a big crater under the tank. The fact that the FAC's air-strike targeted area was then found to be very close to the tank supports this assumption. I haven't seen this sort of incident in the game until now but I'm pretty sure I've read somewhere that large area target orders for ground attack aircraft can sometimes result in friendly fire incidents if friendly units are close by.

[Ricochet67]

It certainly sounds like CAS was responsible for the incident. I got my fingers burned in the first campaign mission by dropping 155mm arty a mere 30 metres from an engineer squad. One casualty and another wounded. Talk about danger close. I'd advanced too quickly through the store buildings.

I played the first mission turn-based but the subsequent ones in real-time. Like you, I miss the opportunity to replay the action. It makes capturing good screenshots difficult too.

[blow56]

Almost certainly friendly fire - I have had similar incidents playing a Marine beach landing, particularly when the first wave AAVs ran too far up the beach and got targetted by US CAS - best part of an engineer platoon was killed and represented almost 90 per cent of total battle losses. I have actually had a casualty from a smoke mortar when I laid a screen, forgot about it and advanced the troops just as it opened fire - the first spotting round landed smack on some poor sucker.

[Battlefront.com]

When people see combat footage of CAS in Iraq and Afghanistan you usually see that the friendly side isn't moving. Just sitting there waiting for the strike. Obviously this is a wise idea!

Steve

[Ricochet67]

I have actually had a casualty from a smoke mortar when I laid a screen, forgot about it and advanced the troops just as it opened fire - the first spotting round landed smack on some poor sucker.

Smoking kills.

One advantage of artillery over CAS (in CMSF) is there's no chance of the arty mistakenly targeting friendlies. The FO supplies coordinates, corrects and confirms fire. I have a lot of faith in blue FOs and never use emergency fire.

The reason I suffered casualties from friendly artillery was due to advancing after the FO had declared the fire mission over but there were still shells in the air. Live and learn.

[Field Marshal Blücher]

The reason I suffered casualties from friendly artillery was due to advancing after the FO had declared the fire mission over but there were still shells in the air. Live and learn.

This is because it's not the FO that declared it--it's the gunners saying that they've fired their last rounds, which is why the rounds are still going downrange.

[Ricochet67]

This is because it's not the FO that declared it--it's the gunners saying that they've fired their last rounds, which is why the rounds are still going downrange.

Thanks FMB. That's good to know. I felt a little guilty in the first mission losing one man to friendly artillery and another when I blundered into a minefield. Of course, they weren't all the casualties but I can blame the Syrians for the remainder.