Bug? Sniper team ammo distribution

[c3k]

Gents,

I found an ammo distribution anomoly. Playing the Marines campaign, the Pooh battle: at start forces include a sniper team (M82 .50 cal. equipped). All this occurred in setup phase.

I moved the 6 man squad INTO a LAV. I ACQUIRED 1,000 rounds of 7.62 ammo. The ammo bar went full up. I split the squad. The 3 man team with the M40A3 had full 7.62 ammo. The 3 man team with the M82 ended up with a single red bar of 7.62.

The 7.62 did not get distributed: the M40A3 team kept almost all of it.

Next, I took the 3 man M82 team and loaded them into a LAV. They ACQUIRED 1,000 rounds of 7.62. The ammo bar was full.

I placed these men on the ground outside the LAV.

Finally, I loaded the M40A3 3 man team into a LAV. I added the M82 section in the LAV. (Remember, both individual teams had FULL 7.62 ammo at this point.) By clicking on ACQUIRE, doing nothing, then clicking on the LAV, I forced the two teams to recombine into a squad. Yes, it had a full 7.62 ammo bar.

I put the squad on the ground. I SPLIT TEAMS. Fun stuff: the M40A3 team had a full 7.62 ammo bar; the M82 team was back to its single red bar.

Summation: M82 equipped sniper teams are unable to hold onto their 7.62 ammo when sniper squads are split.

Question: What ammo does the game assign to the M82?

In real life it uses .50 cal. ammo. In game, our choices are 5.56 or 7.62. If it uses 5.56 in game, this may not be bug per se, but the TacAI giving the 7.62 ammo to the weapon that uses it, the M40A3. If so, it seems less than optimal, taking an EXTRA 1,000 rounds; the M40A3 sniper would have over 2,000 rounds for his bolt action rifle. Good hunting!

Has anyone else noticed this?

Edited to add: the sniper squads with dual M40A3's do not show this behavior; the ammo seems to be split evenly no matter how many recombinings/squad splittings occur.

Also, as almost always, savegame available.

[Dietrich]

Evidently one can't really resupply 50-cal ammo. Sure, it would be nice for one's .50-cal snipers to have a surplus of ammo, but I find that typically the amount they have is sufficient for the number of suitable targets in a given scenario. (Playing "USMC 3:10 To Yuma" the other day, I had my M82-armed sniper team on the roof of the police building, sniping at the onrushing insurgent vehicles; the sniper got in his sights a UAZ crammed with combatants, and he fired once -- I was gratified to see four red plus-signs appear over the vehicle. )

[Elmar Bijlsma]

Unless something has changed, I believe the 7.62 ammo replenishment doesn't even get used by the 7.62 snipers. It's strictly MG ammo.

[c3k]

Elmar Bijlsma; supposition tested and disproved. For what it's worth, I thought you might've been right.

The test: I took a bunch of sniper teams/squads to a local firing range. Both US Army and Marines. (I was unable to get any .50 cal equipped snipers.) They started with SEVERE ammo levels, but there were a dozen or so fully supplied Strykers nearby.

I TARGETED some range buildings. I continued until there was not a SINGLE shot in two consecutive WeGo turns. They seemed totally dry. I then took one group of snipers and gave them 3,000 or so rounds of 7.62 ammo (linked, MG ammo as you implied). The other group only got 5.56 ammo. (I had 4 groups total; two each Army(M110) and Marines (M40).)

I then TARGETED a building at about 200 meters. (When I chose a target much further away it induced some delay in firing. Plus, no one with a 5.56 weapon would fire at a target at 1,000 meters. The closer target was used to ensure every weapon with ammo would fire at the target.)

In all cases the following behavior was displayed;

Teams with ONLY 7.62 ammo had ONLY their snipers fire (M110 or M40A3).

Teams with ONLY 5.56 ammo had ONLY their M4/M16's fire.

This seems to prove that the ammo caliber is sensed/used by the game.

I'd like to try the same test with an M82 (.50), but despite choosing over a dozen elite sniper squads I have yet to get one. Any ideas how to get it equipped?

Thanks,

Ken

[dan/california]

I believe the 50 caliber teams are attached to some higher level headquarters, so have to select a whole battalion and then edit madly.

[c3k]

Hmmm, that's what I did. The only Army team I used was Battalion HQ. The Marines get the Sniper Scout Platoon. I used 4 Army Battalions, suitably whittled down to the Batt. HQ and sniper team. No M82. Settings were Elite/Crack?

In other news, this test focused my attention once again on the shells being ejected. I posted over in tech support that the white shell casing issue is resolved for me. I recently updated to nvidia's 182.06 drivers. That may've cured it.

Another item: and this is picking little baby nits! I noticed that the animations for the bolt action rifles had the shells being ejected at recoil, rather than during the animation for working the bolt. That just can't stay! The end is nigh! Okay, not really.

But if it's not too hard, with all the Kar98's we're about to see, it may behoove BF.C to examine the shell ejection animations for bolt action rifles.

(It's great that we can see details like this on a game which can scale up to such large battles!)

Ken

[RadioactiveMan]

Regarding 50 cal. snipers: You have to set the quality of equipment BEFORE you purchase the unit. If the unit is already on your TOE on the right hand side of the screen modifying the quality of the equipment apparently only influences accuracy/frequency of jamming/etc.

This is a bit counter-intuitive and I had the same problem for a long time... I never could get vehicles to load out with the weapons I wanted them to. Its in the manual somewhere, but it is easy to miss.

[c3k]

Quality was set prior to selecting units on the left screen (purchase screen). I'm reasonable sure there's some sort of randomizer in which types of weapons you get. However, before I redo the editor, has anyone had repeatable success in ensuring .50 cal. equipped snipers get purchased?

If so, how?

Ken

[Dietrich]

I noticed that the animations for the bolt action rifles had the shells being ejected at recoil, rather than during the animation for working the bolt. That just can't stay! The end is nigh! Okay, not really.

But if it's not too hard, with all the Kar98's we're about to see, it may behoove BF.C to examine the shell ejection animations for bolt action rifles.

I don't recall having noticed that, but good noticing! I agree -- at least half of the rifles we'll see in CM:N will be bolt-action, so they'd better get the animation right! (It's more or less a matter of adjusting the timing of when the casing appears to conincide with the bolt-working animation, right?)

If the unit is already on your TOE on the right hand side of the screen modifying the quality of the equipment apparently only influences accuracy/frequency of jamming/etc.

I had forgotten that subtlety. Thanks for the reminder.

anyone had repeatable success in ensuring .50 cal. equipped snipers get purchased?

According to the CMSF manual, the game treats .50-cal rifles as representing "poor" (suboptimal, I suppose) equipment. (In other words, if you set equipment to Good or higher, you'll get just 7.62mm rifles; Normal will yield a randomized mix of 7.62mm and .50-cal rifles.) Set equipment to Poor or Fair before purchasing, and you'll most likely get a sniper squad with at least one M82/M107.

[c3k]

Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner. Thank you, Dietrich. You are correct; the poor/fair equipment toggle produced the M82 snipers. On to the results....

Same test: severe ammo to start, followed by area target command within 200 meters (thankfully, no delay! ), continued until no one in the unit fires for two consecutive WeGo turns. Then I rotated the units into Strykers to load up with either 5.56 or 7.62. Multiple runs, multiple units, no variation in results.

Any team with ONLY 5.56 ammo fired their 5.56 weapons (M4/M16) ONLY.

Any team with ONLY 7.62 ammo fired their 7.62 weapons (M110/M40) ONLY.

Note: once the .50 caliber weapons were dry, they could not reload. Their users did not fire any weapons afterwards. (No swapping to a backup weapon.)

BF.C; it may be too late for CMSF, but for any other game/module, if we have a weapon with different ammo, can we somehow reload it?

Thanks all,

Ken

[Falconander]

Hey,

Sorry if it has been addressed elsewhere, but is there any plan on making the purchase system a little easier in future games.

I would love to just go to say Marines, scroll to infantry, scroll down to sniper, pick my gear and quality and be done.

I know there is some command and control elements to this so maybe you could build the tree as you need it.

So I could choose my platoon the way I see fit, it would than ask me to pick the appropriate command element, say platoon leader. At this point it would recognize my formation as a platoon and assign the name of 1st platoon with appropriate command and control being assigned to the platoon leader.

It would be nice to have this bottom up building. Instead of the top down that is there currently. I find myself frustrated at deleting things only to open up the scenario and see I have selected far too many troops.

Any help or ideas?

[Dietrich]

I find myself frustrated at deleting things only to open up the scenario and see I have selected far too many troops.

Any help or ideas?

At the start, delete everything except what you know you want? Then un-delete units piecemeal from there? *shrug*