Total hist. # of atomic bombs avail. in '45?

[Billy Lincoln]

Just finished my first game of this as the Japanese and hats off to everyone for such a quality game! Especially the aircraft carriers and the weather, as well as the huge scale of the game that allows so many different parts of the map to end up being potential "turning point" locations of the conflict.

Two quick questions:

Question 1: I think I heard on the History Channel once that the U.S. only had enough material to deliver 6 atomic bombs in '45 (and I think we produced a total of 9 atomic bombs in 1946). So after the 6th bomb fell in this game, I thought Japan would get a break from atomic bombs for a little while, since the historical quality was used up, but I think the game repeats another 6 bombs starting in Dec '45 again with no letup in sight. (I realize I can turn off the repeating bombings in the scripts, but was curious).

Question 2: I skimmed the online game manual and didn't find anything in regards to if the atomic bombs on dependant upon the U.S. being in control of islands within a certain range of the country of Japan (if the Japanese kept control of the islands and territories closest to it and out of range of the U.S. bombers, could it delay the Americans' ability to atomic bomb it til '46?) Is that written into the scripts already?

Billy

[jon_j_rambo]

Answer #1: Who knows? Maybe the HC is right, maybe they are wrong.

Answer #2: I couldn't find squat in the manual about Nukes. As the Nips you will get dusted off by half dozen or so. The resource hexes still rebuild at 1 strength point per turn, and units in the nuked hex goto strength 1. The city shouldn't be considered bye-bye with a big mushroom, rather than the conventional reduced method....Else it's just the same as hitting it with regular bombers within the context of this game.

-Legend

[Bill101]

Hi Billy

With respect to question 1, we have found lots of conflicting information on how many bombs were available in 1945.

I'm still hoping to find a 100% definitive and authoritative source, and welcome properly sourced contributions to this discussion (the parts in bold aren't aimed at you, but are friendly hints to anyone who has detailed information to contribute).

One thing to bear in mind if the bombs are dropping on you, is that the more that drop, the better Japan is doing. This might sound strange and paradoxical, so let me explain.

The allies need to capture Japan, not destroy it, so if they are sitting on their haunches while the bombs drop, the clock is also ticking away, and unless the allies capture Tokyo and Kyoto before the end of 1945, Japan will win. Obviously the allies can allow some bombs to drop before invading, but ultimately the allies cannot rely on the bombs to do their work for them. So if it's December 1945 and some bombs are still dropping on Japan, then you're in with a chance of an Axis victory. Hang in there!

In answer to question 2, the details are about 2/3rds of the way down the left hand column on page 69:

From the summer of 1945, if the allies hold Tinian in the Marianas then they can use the airfields there to drop atomic bombs on your cities, inflicting casualties and reducing your supply levels and income.

[jon_j_rambo]

Come on with this 100% source thing. The same source going to tell us who shot JFK too? Only 100% source is the King James Bible.

[Fintilgin]

Speaking of atomic bombs, I do find it a little weird (and slightly off-putting) that it's impossible to win a historical victory as the Allies.

I'd rather see a victory condition like:

If China, Russia, India, and Australia have not surrendered, the Philippines have been liberated, and the allies control Iwo Jima, Tinian or Saipan they can drop one atomic bomb per turn on Japan. Each atomic bomb has a decreasing chance of forcing immediate Japanese surrender. 40% for the first bomb, 30% for the second, 20% for the third, 10% for the fourth and 0% for each one after that, requiring invasion. (If I were programming the game, I'd 'pre-roll' these at the beginning of the game and hide them in the save file, to prevent single-player save/reloading.)

Of course, I'd also extend the game until the late summer of 1946 and maybe strengthen the Japanese home-guard events.

I mean, maybe it's already to easy to win as the allies, but forcing a massively ahistorical event to win the game seems really odd to me.

[thetwo]

Uranium bombs like the one used on Hiroshima were abandoned after the war. U-235 was too hard to generate. That one bomb used the entire stock of refined U-235.

Fat Man type bombs, using plutonium, were easier to supply and were used for the first post-war tests and formed America's immediate nuclear weapon stockpile. These were the Mk3A fission bombs.

As of June 1946, the United States had 9 Fat Man bombs. I don't recall any tests between the end of the war and that month. In July 1946, two were used in the Crossroads tests at Bikini Atoll.

So, we can guess that there were 7 (maybe 8) in inventory by the end of July 1946.

Another fact was that the fission core for the third wartime bomb was delivered to Tinian on August 11, 1945. The third bomb could have been dropped a week later.

So if we take the 7 from the end of July 1946, subtract the 1 we know was available in August 1945, add back the two Bikini test bombs, we get eight manufactured from September 1, 1945 through end of June 1946. Ten months for eight bombs. I make that approximately 304 days, which yields one bomb every 38 days on average. I would guess that this is plus or minus three to five days.

I hope this is of some help.

[Colin I]

How was quality control ;-)

I'm serious, also mechanical failure of the dropping plane etc. might suggest a high chance of success not 100%.

[Bill101]

Thanks for the thoughts here regarding the atom bombs.

Flintilgin, you make a good point here as deciding on the victory conditions was one of the hardest tasks in designing this scenario.

The reason we chose to make it so that the allies would have to invade Japan is so that the game ends with some significant and tense action. I feared that the historical ending could feel like a bit of an anti-climax, and that those playing the Japanese would probably rather fight to the bitter end than have the game end sooner.

It also serves to keep the Japanese player's interest up towards the end, as they might have lost their fleet and much of their air force, but they can still attempt to inflict massive casualties on the allied invasion when it comes. Hopefully this keeps the game fun right to the end.