US Subs in Midway Scenario

[dgold07]

I am playing the Midway scenario as the USA. I start with about 6 subs in silent mode west of Midway. The first Japanese turn these subs are attacked at several hex range by Japanese ships and aircraft.

As they are in silent mode and not adjacent to any Japanese ships, they should not be spotted nor attacked, unless I am reading the rules wrong.

Thanks.

[Bill101]

I've just taken a look and you're not misreading the rules. What he's doing is using his destroyers to search for your submarines, and then striking with his ships and aircraft to sink them.

Fortunately the more effort he uses on sinking your submarines, the worse his supply will be once your carriers enter the fray.

[dgold07]

Hi Bill,

Shouldn't subs in silent mode be unspotted unless an enemy unit is adjacent? I don't think that Japanese ships had sonar in 1942.

[Bill101]

It's because the destroyers have a naval spotting range of more than 1.

In the main scenario, Operation Z, they have a shorter range than they might have in some of the smaller scenarios. The manual takes Operation Z as the default rule, so you might find slightly different ranges in scenarios such as the Midway one which work to a different scale.

[Happycat]

It's too bad there is no way to introduce an air search function. A big part of the actual battle (and of some excellent games years ago) is the searching for enemy task forces. I remember an SSI game for the PC (was it Carriers at War?) where the Midway and Coral Sea scenarios included PBY's searching, searching, searching...and it was actually quite a thrill when you eventually got a sighting.

Is there any way to implement this in the Midway scenario?

[Timskorn]

I suppose the way detection works could be modified, similar to how "?" is used for sub spotting.

Right now as long as a unit is within range, they are always seen but their strength value is not always known. What if, as part of intelligence rating, there was a % chance that when units enter the visual range of friendly units that the exact 'type' of ship is not always revealed?

Say I move my carrier and when the move ends, two "?" marks appear 6 tiles away that are now within range. Underneath the "?" mark, as with the subs, the unit symbol appears as a cruiser and a carrier...BUT, there is a small chance that the unit graphic is incorrect (reflecting the fact that fleet spottings in the pacific were not always correct).

Now, on top of this new spotting feature, you can actually task air units to attack these "?" marks. You don't have 100% assurance that IS their carrier, however, but you decide to take your chances anyway and arm your torp/dive bombers and send them out but when they strike the ship, it's revealed to be a BB instead...it wasn't the carrier! You've sunk a BB, but now your carrier is revealed and stuck in naval/tac mode and vulnerable to counter-attack.

Might be too much for the "SC" design though, and we do in a sense already have the cat and mouse feel to the carrier battles and what modes you want them in.

Makes me think of Pacific Air War...what a great game that was. Fun real-time strategy of carrier warfare AND flight sim. Send those PBY's out, find those carriers, then organize the flight groups yourself to send out. Do you send the kitchen sink, or keep some fighters in reserve for CAP (and personally take over a Zero or Wildcat when you realize your opponent has sent 3 flights of dive bombers at you while your fighters are away!)

http://www.dedoimedo.com/games/1942.html

[Happycat]

I suppose the way detection works could be modified, similar to how "?" is used for sub spotting.

Right now as long as a unit is within range, they are always seen but their strength value is not always known. What if, as part of intelligence rating, there was a % chance that when units enter the visual range of friendly units that the exact 'type' of ship is not always revealed?

Say I move my carrier and when the move ends, two "?" marks appear 6 tiles away that are now within range. Underneath the "?" mark, as with the subs, the unit symbol appears as a cruiser and a carrier...BUT, there is a small chance that the unit graphic is incorrect (reflecting the fact that fleet spottings in the pacific were not always correct).

Now, on top of this new spotting feature, you can actually task air units to attack these "?" marks. You don't have 100% assurance that IS their carrier, however, but you decide to take your chances anyway and arm your torp/dive bombers and send them out but when they strike the ship, it's revealed to be a BB instead...it wasn't the carrier! You've sunk a BB, but now your carrier is revealed and stuck in naval/tac mode and vulnerable to counter-attack.

Might be too much for the "SC" design though, and we do in a sense already have the cat and mouse feel to the carrier battles and what modes you want them in.

Makes me think of Pacific Air War...what a great game that was. Fun real-time strategy of carrier warfare AND flight sim. Send those PBY's out, find those carriers, then organize the flight groups yourself to send out. Do you send the kitchen sink, or keep some fighters in reserve for CAP (and personally take over a Zero or Wildcat when you realize your opponent has sent 3 flights of dive bombers at you while your fighters are away!)

http://www.dedoimedo.com/games/1942.html

This sounds like it could be a good solution to introduce some additional drama and uncertainty into the gameplay. Nothing is more embarrassing than taking a knife to a gunfight, right?