DDay 2008 revamped

[Jak170]

I just uploaded a scenario to CMMODS. Its a map by another person (permanent666) that I just changed around a little. I want to start making scenarios and I thought that would be a good place to start (editing some1 else's map). How is the balance and the other little things I put in there? For reference, the original map is listed just below mine when chronologically ordered.

Thanks

[blow56]

Nice map - but as a beach landing battle for the 21st century, this is all wrong. Presumably you used Stryker MOUT inf because the Marine module isn't available - Marines are the obvious choice for this.

Your infantry start far too close to a defended beach, complete with emplaced MG bunkers etc etc. They start debouched. All this means they are getting slaughtered before they can order smoke, arty fire or find cover. They also start all at once instead of being staggered in waves.

This is a perfect beach for a WW2 D-Day landing but things have moved on in the intervening 60 years - controlled naval gunfire and smart aerial munitions would have removed the worst of the overlooking beach threats. The inf would be coming in on AAVs under cover of a massive smoke lay-down. Mines, obstacles and enemy arty fire (hidden FOs) would be their worst problem, plus the enemy BEHIND the immediate beach area, which is where a sensible defender has his counter-attack waiting (though the US would not even be contemplating an opposed beach landing if they did not have air SUPREMACY, not just superiority so the enemy capability here would be limited).

If you wanted to recreate Utah beach, well done and it is enjoyable - it would be brilliant under CM. But this is CM:SF and if you want that flavour of beach landing, have a look at Pete Wenman's From The Halls Of Montezuma for some good ideas on how to make it. He also has a very nice Marsh-to-water mod included with it. Instead of the Mud (or as well as, to simulate the tide being out) try laying down some Marsh and then running some paths through it. You will see Pete uses gravel on blue water for this, which is pleasing to the eye. The reason for this is simple - it restricts your amphibs to specific paths, to represent cleared areas through underwater obstacles or mines. If you make it a rule of thumb to use Slow when moving, you can recreate the amphib speed on approach, only using normal movement when you hit the beach proper.

I think this more accurately represents modern amphibious ops - but feel free to ignore any or all of this :-)

[ChrisND]

Nice map - but as a beach landing battle for the 21st century, this is all wrong. Presumably you used Stryker MOUT inf because the Marine module isn't available - Marines are the obvious choice for this.

Your infantry start far too close to a defended beach, complete with emplaced MG bunkers etc etc. They start debouched. All this means they are getting slaughtered before they can order smoke, arty fire or find cover. They also start all at once instead of being staggered in waves.

This is a perfect beach for a WW2 D-Day landing but things have moved on in the intervening 60 years - controlled naval gunfire and smart aerial munitions would have removed the worst of the overlooking beach threats. The inf would be coming in on AAVs under cover of a massive smoke lay-down. Mines, obstacles and enemy arty fire (hidden FOs) would be their worst problem, plus the enemy BEHIND the immediate beach area, which is where a sensible defender has his counter-attack waiting (though the US would not even be contemplating an opposed beach landing if they did not have air SUPREMACY, not just superiority so the enemy capability here would be limited).

If you wanted to recreate Utah beach, well done and it is enjoyable - it would be brilliant under CM. But this is CM:SF and if you want that flavour of beach landing, have a look at Pete Wenman's From The Halls Of Montezuma for some good ideas on how to make it. He also has a very nice Marsh-to-water mod included with it. Instead of the Mud (or as well as, to simulate the tide being out) try laying down some Marsh and then running some paths through it. You will see Pete uses gravel on blue water for this, which is pleasing to the eye. The reason for this is simple - it restricts your amphibs to specific paths, to represent cleared areas through underwater obstacles or mines. If you make it a rule of thumb to use Slow when moving, you can recreate the amphib speed on approach, only using normal movement when you hit the beach proper.

I think this more accurately represents modern amphibious ops - but feel free to ignore any or all of this :-)

I think you might be taking the scenario a mite too seriously. I enjoyed it for the big booms and dudes running around like ants, nothing more.

[Jak170]

Aye. This wasn't really meant to be a modern day thing. Just a good ol run and gun game. More cinematic than anything really. Makes for nice recordings if you place the screen in one of the bunkers and look out onto the beach. You kinda have to picture that these guys are actually WW2 guys instead of modern MOUT troopers.

True I don't have Marines because I think seriously, 1.10 is great and good enough for me. And the goggles just dont do it for me.

I forgot about mud though. I have the muddy waters mod from CMMODS that makes the mud look like water rather than... well... mud. So if you get that mod, it looks real nice.

I actually used MOUT because their squads could be split into smaller segments (3 over 2) so you had more control.

Let me remind anyone that the ground is not my map (elevations, buildings). All I did was bring in more units, add the "water" textures, increase red defenses, put the random walls on the beach, WAY more craters, and more red bunkers.

Cheerios.

[blow56]

The scenarios I like best are ones slightly more rooted in the reality of modern warfare. Like how a dozen dead Marines probably means a major scandal in the US. Like how, to avoid this, you use the weapons and equipment the game designers so thoughtfully and carefully provided. If the modders can agonise over the camo scheme on the MI, I don't see why designers can't take matters just as seriously. I am not having a pop at the designer of this - I liked the ant-running and big bangs too - I just thought the guy might like to know the other side of the coin as well.

[permanent666]

i'm the original designer of this map and i have the marines addon but the marines are to strong for this map concept. when i designed the map i didn't care about reallive. i wanted to create an infantry battle which is fun to play.

unfortunately i downloaded the mud to water mod to late. when i extended the map size to add some water tiles i had to recognize that the units will change their positions and i didn't have the time to relocate them.

[Jak170]

preeeetty nice map there permanent. It was really fun playing it over and over, especially during the review phase of wego.