CMSF 1.10/Marines --- Should I get it?

[Cerebrus]

Alright I posted something like this like a week ago but it disappeared so I guess the mods deleted it (maybe too harsh on 1.0? dunno, in any case it'd be nice if I could at least get a PM and maybe get the opportunity to read replies first :confused:)

Just so it's clear I'm not bashing Battlefront here or trying to get banned just being honest and I'd like some solid answers on my concerns before I dish out some more money.

Basically, I was really hyped about 1.0 like everybody but was pretty much bored out of my mind/driven insane by these three big issues:

1. The utterly incompetent AI (both TacAI and enemy overall AI, not sure what the "term" for that is). Many many missions the enemy would simply SIT there or move around a tiny bit. It was a joke. CMAK enemy AI was FAR superior (as well as the TacAI)

So has this been resolved in 1.10/Marines? Both portions that is? I'm a very busy guy, always have stuff going on and honestly sometimes I just want to sit down, play 2 hours of CM and then run off. PBEM games are fun but it's annoying to not be able to play more than one turn at a go IMO.

2. Pathfinding (this kinda goes with TacAI I guess).

It was bad. 'Nuff said. Has this been addressed?

3. The interface drove me crazy. I really didn't like the way the movement sidescroll would speed up/slow down and the actual control scheme for issuing commands was super clunky (how you had to change tabs and all). Has this been fixed? (both the sidescroll/zoom thing and the actual command and control scheme)

Also I thought the campaign was kinda boring but this may have been largely due to these other 3 issues.

I'm dying to have a great 3d tactical game to play but I'm not taking a risk again.

Is the content in Marines worth it if I'm not particularly interested in just having "Marine units"? (i.e. are the missions/campaigns solid)?

Finally, realistically how easy is it to get a multiplayer (non-PBEM) game going? In 1.0 I went in the chat room area but there was never anyone there. Any plans for an actual in-game lobby?

[Moon]

Alright I posted something like this like a week ago but it disappeared so I guess the mods deleted it (maybe too harsh on 1.0? dunno, in any case it'd be nice if I could at least get a PM and maybe get the opportunity to read replies first :confused:)

We don't delete posts on these boards except for spam messages.

[Cerebrus]

Huh... I apologize then. Still can't find it though :S.

[Chainsaw]

sure you hit "submit reply" and not "preview post" and thought you posted? because that happend to me once. (never again)

[TheVulture]

The TacAI is much better these days. Infantry are pretty good at doing sensible things and making decent choices about returning fire, seeking cover, avoiding the Crawl of Death. There are always going to be some cases where it doesn't make the right choice, but it's pretty solid and you can tell it is doing well because you don't notice it (rather than being annoyed about it making obviously bad choices).

Infantry pathfinding is fine. As always, there are occasional things that seem strange, but it is usually a matter of incorrect expectation. Once you understand that infantry will tend to stay out of houses unless ordered in (and so won't go *though* a house on the way from A to B in the absence of a waypoint in the house), or that in narrow spaces US squads with multiple teams can do odd things since one team seems its route blocked by another team (you can micromanage around it, or just use assault...), then you can be pretty confident what the effect of an order will be, and that is all you need to avoid frustration with pathfinding really. Vehicle pathfinding is much better than 1.0, although seems to have taken a slight step back from 1.08, with a few random bits of maneouvering around piles of invisible sand.

Overall enemy AI is more a matter for scenario designers than programming, and unsurprisingly improves as the designers get more used to how to use the AI plans in the editor to achieve what they want.

Camera panning is about the same as it was. I don't have any problem with it now, although it took me a while to get used to it. But if it actively annoyed you before, it probably still will.

Issuing commands it much smoother. You can define hotkeys for all the commands so that you can use them without paying attention to the tabs. And there is a pop-up menu to issue commands - if you have a unit selected you can hit the space bar to bring up a menu with all the available commands for that unit in it. No more playing around with the tabs.

I never really got into the CM:SF campaign, despite trying it several times. They just weren't the kinds of battles that interested me for one reason or another. Only just started the marines campaign, but I am loving it so far. It feels much more like CMx1 in terms of immersion and playability. I've only tried one scenario off the disk (Day at the Beach - only about 10 minutes in but it has been awesome so far). There have been some great scenarios and campaigns produced for the stock game, and playing those in 1.08 was fine. 1.10 is even better.

Can't tell you anything about multiplayer. I stick to single player or PBEM games, playing WeGo, not real time. They all work fine for me.

[Paper Tiger]

Sorry, but what's the point of asking this? While TacAI and pathfinding has improved tremendously in the last year, who can tell you if they've improved enough for YOU to be satisfied? You should just wait until they release the v1.10 patch or wait for a new demo and decide for yourself.

[Yskonyn]

I agree with Paper Tiger, but I don't know if Cerebrus is aware that all the 'core game changes' are free for exisiting CMSF owners anyway in the form of the 1.10 patch.

The Marines module is just that; a module with new toys and missions.

If you have your reserves about dishing out the cash for the module I think it would be wise to just install patch 1.10 over your 'old' cmsf core game and play around for a while to see if its the game you expected. If not, then getting the Marines module will certainly not change that.

[Moon]

Huh... I apologize then. Still can't find it though :S.

Maybe you didn't post it in this forum, or you used a different account? All I can see in your post log are posts in the General Discussion forum.

[Northman]

1. The utterly incompetent AI (both TacAI and enemy overall AI, not sure what the "term" for that is). Many many missions the enemy would simply SIT there or move around a tiny bit. It was a joke. CMAK enemy AI was FAR superior (as well as the TacAI)

So has this been resolved in 1.10/Marines?

The StratAI still sucks, to be plain. It is still the same, simple pre-scripted system with very limited options(the AI still can't use the 'hunt' command, for instance - they always run(perhaps this is why quick/fast work as they do...)).

The TacAI is a whole different case. There have been numerous improvements here. Nearly as good as CMAK's I would say, though they do not compare well in many areas because of the 1:1 modeling SF has. Soldiers fire on the move, seek cover better and generally react better and quicker to threats/incoming fire. Huge improvement from 1.0.

2. Pathfinding (this kinda goes with TacAI I guess).

It was bad. 'Nuff said. Has this been addressed?

There are a few issues with vehicles turning their side, or even rear, towards potential threats, but generally the pathfinding issues/bugs are gone.

3. The interface drove me crazy. I really didn't like the way the movement sidescroll would speed up/slow down and the actual control scheme for issuing commands was super clunky (how you had to change tabs and all). Has this been fixed? (both the sidescroll/zoom thing and the actual command and control scheme)

It's still clunky. Get used to it.

Also I thought the campaign was kinda boring but this may have been largely due to these other 3 issues.

The Marines campaign seems to be more challenging.

Is the content in Marines worth it if I'm not particularly interested in just having "Marine units"? (i.e. are the missions/campaigns solid)?

Yes.

All this is opinion, of course.

[Other Means]

You could try my hotkeys file - some seem to like it.

Backup your "hotkeys.txt" file in your data folder and right click this link:

http://othermeans.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/hotkeys.txt

and save the file to your data folder.

Open it in Notepad and have a look at what it does. Quick is "Q", Hunt is "H", Target is "T" etc etc - take a look at the file. It's pretty self explanatory.