Need help in victory points 'balancing' for UNCON/Blue battle

[Fat Dave]

Hi guys,

In preparation of 1.10 (which I am hoping will transform infantry combat to something less frustrating, and help me sell this game to my friends) I am trying to make a UNCON vs Blue MOUT battle which could be played as PBEM.

I am trying to get it balanced so neither player would feel they are fighting a losing battle from the get-go, regardless of what side they chose.

I want to create a battle in which the Blue attacker needs to capture (occupy) a building in the middle of an UNCON held small town (think Al Huqf) and kill as many enemy as possible while preserving their fighting force.

As the Red player, they need to hold the building, and kill and destroy as many of Blues' attacking force as possible. They are all fantatics and preservation is not an issue.

Now, I can think of a nice mix of units that could battle it out, but I am not sure how to balance it out via points. Would anyone be able to give me a rough formula which would balance out each sides objectives, both terrain and unit wise.

I am thinking along these lines for the Blue player:

1. Occupy the building before the end of the alloted time = 100 points

2. Destroy more that 70 % of the enemy force = 100 points

3. Keep own losses to under 30 % = 100 points

For the Red forces:

1. For each IFV destroyed 50 points. 3 x Bradleys or Strykers@ 50 points each= 150 points

2. Occupy building before the end of the alloted time = 100 points

3. Destroy at least 30% of attacking force = 50 points

Now, I am a complete beginner at this balancing act, and I am not sure if anyone would see this as a fair set of win/draw or loss criteria.

All help/suggestions appreciated.

Cheers

[cabal23]

I think you did good. What I do is I come up with a total and try and make it so each side has a opportunity to score the same number of points, but w/ different objectives. I always make it even, though I have seen it done many ways. It seems I have seen it so the Syrians have a very lopsided score and always lose. I don't think it should be like that. Also I have seen people use scoring in the tens, hundreds and thousands, so it is really up to the designer, but I like hundreds personally.

[Paper Tiger]

I am thinking along these lines for the Blue player:

1. Occupy the building before the end of the alloted time = 100 points

2. Destroy more that 70 % of the enemy force = 100 points

3. Keep own losses to under 30 % = 100 points

For the Red forces:

1. For each IFV destroyed 50 points. 3 x Bradleys or Strykers@ 50 points each= 150 points

2. Occupy building before the end of the alloted time = 100 points

3. Destroy at least 30% of attacking force = 50 points

I don't know mate. Of course, I have no idea what balance of forces you're using so I'm going to estimate that the US side is outnumbered by at least 2:1. Even if it's higher than that, it still sounds very difficult for the Syrian side to get a win. Why?

First off, what's the most important thing for both players to do? Capture that building or inflict casualties?

Occupancy for the Blue side sounds good but if you don't change anything else, make it higher for the Red side. After all, they have done the near impossible. With your current scoring, the Syrians could control the building for 100 points but, unless the US player is a hopeless incompetent, they should neither lose 30% of their force or fail to eliminate 70% of the Syrian side either. That would net the US player 200 points. That means that unless they lose 2 vehicles, (+100 points for Red) the worst result for Blue is a draw.

I would set the US casualty rate much lower at around 10% for 50 points

for enemy casualties, give them only 50 points too. the US SHOULD slaughter insurgents.

This means that failure to occupy the building but fulfill the other two parameters gives the US side 100 points only. The Syrian side would get 100 points for occupancy and unless they kill a vehicle, they get a draw. Kill even one vehicle and they win. That sounds fair.

For Red, the points for vehicles are fine and nicely balanced.

Okay with the 100 points for occupying the building too in spite of my earlier suggestion.

However, if they manage to kill 30% of the US force, that really should be an automatic victory for them. Give them 500 points for doing it or reduce the percentage to 10% and reduce the points to 50.

So, if the US player takes the building but loses a significant portion of his force, he still loses.

100 points for occupancy v 500 for the Syrian for killing 30% of the force.

If the US fulfills the occupancy and keeps his casualties below 30% he can win as long as he doesn't lose two or more of his vehicles.

:

100 points for occupancy v 0 if he doesn't lose a vehicle. Or a draw if he loses two vehicles. A loss if he loses all three.

There. I hope that helps a bit.

[Fat Dave]

Hi PT,

This is exactly the type of info I was looking for:) Appreciate it a lot.

I tried to figure out all the possible scenarios regarding losses and objectives to see what was required for a win/draw or a loss but wasn't sure what sort of damage percentages were realistic as well as fun and balanced. No-one would want to take on the UNCON side knowing that from the first turn, you'd be pissing into the wind for the rest of the game Your breakdown is very helpful.

Thanks again.

[Cpl Steiner]

Personally I don't like the "all or nothing" nature of the casualty thresholds. For Red I think it is more realistic to give them points for destroying all or part of the Blue force. Instead of a casualty parameter threshold I would advocate using a Unit objective for Red, set to "Destroy" rather than "Destroy All". That way, every single Blue casualty hurts. The figure to assign to the destroy unit objective can be determined through testing to arrive at a value which makes it a tight game for Blue.

[Fat Dave]

If I understand correctly Cpl Steiner, I need to set every Blue infantry platoon/squad -for example- as a unit objective for Red to destroy? If so, is there a limit of how many unit objectives I can use? I am thinking of the limit there is for AI plans F1-F9 style for example.

[Field Marshal Blücher]

Fat Dave, you can assign all U.S. infantry units as the same objective, and just give the Syrians a MASSIVE point bonus for killing all of them. Massive as in, several times the total point values for other objectives. Make sure the objective is set to "Destroy" and not "Destroy All."

[Cpl Steiner]

If I understand correctly Cpl Steiner, I need to set every Blue infantry platoon/squad -for example- as a unit objective for Red to destroy? If so, is there a limit of how many unit objectives I can use? I am thinking of the limit there is for AI plans F1-F9 style for example.

Fat Dave,

You can have up to 8 different unit objectives as far as I can remember. I think you assign them by pressing Shift plus the function keys F1 to F8. There are many ways to look at it. If you just want to penalise the US side for every casualty, have all US personnel belong to the same unit. If you want the vehicles to be worth more, assign them to a different unit. The same sort of thing can be done for high value foot personnel such as company HQs etc.

As it is virtually impossible for Red to actually achieve the total destruction of Blue, I usually call the objective something less dramatic than "Destroy Blue Force". Something like "US Casualties" would be fine.

[Fat Dave]

Thanks for the replies guys! I understand now

Setting up the Red's points' levels based on 'destroy' the Blue infantry unit -as one objective- mixed with a terrain objective would certainly be the way to go for this UNCON defense scenario.

Bring on the Marines and 1.10!

[Paper Tiger]

Cpl Steiner's suggestion regarding casualty thresholds are definitely a better choice for scenarios. I have done almost all my work within the framework of a campaign and so the VP conditions need to be a bit more black and white. Look forward to playing it when it's done.