Veteran/Elite AI

[NefariousKoel]

So.. I ventured into Elite skill level after playing a few scenarios on Veteran.

I only have one problem with it. The friendly AI doesn't seem to shoot at anything that isn't fully identified. My units tend to just sit there while taking fire from a question mark. Is this normal? Am I making too much of a small thing?

What setting do you use?

[Elmar Bijlsma]

It's normal, you are misreading what's happening to a degree.

Your units did spot something, but if that became a question mark then that means they aren't seeing it anymore. Because that's what a question mark, a contact that was lost. If your troops didn't fire at all it's probably because the contact was too short to respond too. If you think the enemy is still there, use area fire. That simulates firing at unseen targets. That's something the AI can't do.

I used to be playing everything in Elite, but the fiddly nature of not seeing your own units just ended pissing me off so I recently started playing in Veteran mode. There will be a change to the levels in V1.10

[NefariousKoel]

Yes, I understand the old contacts situation.

I was still confused by my units actually taking fire from a '?' or even multiple ones while they sit there or self-retreat instead of firing back. I realize the AI won't area fire on it's own but they do seem more responsive in returning fire on Veteran since enemies are identified faster.

One example would be a static, hull down T-54 that was firing on my M1A1s. I would set a narrow fire arc for it, set my platoon of M1s on Hunt for a short distance into view, tried both buttoned and unbuttoned, and they would proceed to get fired on from the T-54 and hit often enough without ever returning fire. Obviously there was LOS from it to the M1s but they would never see it. The only reason I knew what it was is because I had it under observation from an HQ unit further back and even that would switch from ID'd to question mark and back quite often. I lost an M1, another immobilized, and a third had it's FC system knocked out due to all the fire I was taking from it. That was after 3 attempts to move up as a platoon & get a shot. They did manage to knock out a mobile T-55 that was much further away right off the bat, but the closer static tank was just hammering away the whole time.

Anyway, thanks for the reply. It just baffles me and I wanted to see what others thought.

[cool breeze]

I think the spotting is stronger while the vehicle is stationary and certainly its harder to see the stationary tank. So I think you'd have more success having the tanks stop in hull down to the enemy and sit with the target arc till it finds it or you chicken out. Im no expert.

[Elmar Bijlsma]

Well, I wouldn't know what to think of your example as my Abrams have no trouble spotting enemy vehicles in any difficulty mode. Red tanks hardly ever get the drop on Abrams, moving or stationary. Is what you describe something that happens often in various scenarios or just in that instance?

I am not surprised to see the same in small arms fire though, which is notoriously tricky to spot.

It'll help if you use the more cautious stances to move. This will get you closer to the enemy before they'll open fire, increasing your chances your troops will see them and return fire. If you run they'll start firing at longer ranger where you'll have difficulty spotting a shooter that's concealed. I pretty much use Hunt for most manoeuvres. It'll mean they typically don't draw fire from everyone across the length of the map and when they do get shot at they stop, and thus increase their chances to spot who is shooting at them. Also, have some units provide overwatch. Your movers might not see who is shooting, the squad nearby that's doing nothing but looking around probably will. And obviously, you may want to orientate such overwatch squads towards positions you expect fire to come from (duh!). Do all this and you'll drastically reduce the likelihood of not spotting shooters.

btw

Why did you set a target arc? Unless I missed a memo it does not increase the likelihood that you'll spot a target in the 'Target Arc-ed' area. Well, no bonus aside from that it'll make the turret point that way, which obviously helps.

[NefariousKoel]

btw

Why did you set a target arc? Unless I missed a memo it does not increase the likelihood that you'll spot a target in the 'Target Arc-ed' area. Well, no bonus aside from that it'll make the turret point that way, which obviously helps.

Yes... "less acquisition time" for targeted arc. I'd only consider it while moving and aiming for an enemy I knew would be visible during the move. Good way to keep the turret aimed near the unseen target while moving, anyway.

And, yes, I've rarely had problems with my M1s spotting enemy MBTs and taking them out in short order until this incident. I guess that's my big complaint. This certain one seemed invisible to them.

An unfortunate mix of moon cycles, timing, and location?

[Paper Tiger]

There will be a change to the levels in V1.10

I didn't miss that Elmar. No doubt you're not at liberty to elaborate?

[dan/california]

I had this problem with one enemy Tank in George Mc's excellent scenario Hammertime. The T72 was sitting about 2/12 houses back into a built up area which gave it a very narrow field of view. It would occasionally get a shot of and ruin my day, but t was extraordinarily difficult to get my M1s positioned to get a shot off. I figured it was about halfway between good scenario design and a problem with the spotting routine.

That scenario should resolve any questions any one has about play balance by the way. It is HARD.

[SgtMuhammed]

The T55 in question might be hull down to the M1's and presenting a small target while the M1 is visible in all its glory. I can tell you from experience that there is a big difference between knowing there is a target "over there" and actually identifying it so you can shoot at it. This is especially true if one is moving and the other isn't. If you are careful you can take shots at an enemy all day and still escape notice. Sometime strange stuff happens.