bodkin Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 This is something I came across in teaching myself how to build scenarios. I've done some tests on flat ground with only a rural stone wall seperating the units and it seems rpg's wont fire over low walls when the terrain is equal between opposing units and they are in ambush mode. Squads with an rpg guy may fire their Ak's but not the rpg itself. Only if set to active mode will an rpg team open fire. A dedicated two man RPG-7 unit will not ambush over a low wall in my testing. To me ambush should mean they can look over low walls occasionally and shoot at the enemy within their ambush range, but it seems rpg's don't do this only troops armed with AK's etc. In relation to rpg's in squads I think it's probably due to the squad placement, the rpg guy seems to be at the back of the formation and maybe lays low all the time and only the front guys get up to have a shot. This is either a small bug for scenario designers to keep in mind or it's just part of the game that I don't understand. Anyway it is a consideration when making a scenario if your trying to set up an rpg ambush over a low wall. [ March 13, 2008, 02:46 AM: Message edited by: bodkin ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdstrike Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 Interesting, have to keep an eye on that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dima Posted March 14, 2008 Share Posted March 14, 2008 Originally posted by bodkin: This is something I came across in teaching myself how to build scenarios. I've done some tests on flat ground with only a rural stone wall seperating the units and it seems rpg's wont fire over low walls when the terrain is equal between opposing units and they are in ambush mode. Squads with an rpg guy may fire their Ak's but not the rpg itself. Only if set to active mode will an rpg team open fire. A dedicated two man RPG-7 unit will not ambush over a low wall in my testing. To me ambush should mean they can look over low walls occasionally and shoot at the enemy within their ambush range, but it seems rpg's don't do this only troops armed with AK's etc. In relation to rpg's in squads I think it's probably due to the squad placement, the rpg guy seems to be at the back of the formation and maybe lays low all the time and only the front guys get up to have a shot. This is either a small bug for scenario designers to keep in mind or it's just part of the game that I don't understand. Anyway it is a consideration when making a scenario if your trying to set up an rpg ambush over a low wall. Hi Bodkin! I am on a beta team. Can you email me scenario that demonstrates the problem, I'll check it and if I confirm that it is a bug, I'll report it directly to devs and hopefully they'll fix it. My email is "dimastep at gmail dooot com" Thanks! [ March 13, 2008, 08:48 PM: Message edited by: dima ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodkin Posted March 14, 2008 Author Share Posted March 14, 2008 Ok I've played around with this a bit more, it seems the squads proximity to the wall is very important. If the squad is placed very close to the wall they will go into a kneeling stance and will ambush with rpg's. This is ok if your manually placing AI units in the editor. But if your giving the AI different setup options so that the RPG squad has several zones to choose to set up in it's a little more tricky. You need to paint a square on the wall itself so the unit will place itself right up against it. The problem then is which side of the wall does the AI set up on? I have done some tests and have found the AI always seems to set up on the side of the wall that I wanted it to, meaning they use the wall as a defensive barrier against oncoming enemy. This either occurs because of the direction I had them facing in the general setup, e.g. I have them facing North where the enemy is coming from so when painting the setup zone on top of a wall the editor is clever enough to realise the wall would be better infront of the squad. Or that they choose which side of the wall to hide on based on the direction of the enemy setup zone? However there's one last twist, the wall needs to be diagonal for this to work if the wall is the straight vertical or horizontal (editor graphic) type the unit will often setup on the wrong side. But the problem of AI not firing rpgs over horizontal or vertical walls does not seem to be a problem only angled walls. Anyway I seem to have solved a minor design puzzle (in my own mind anyway) for now and I can continue building my scenario. I need a holiday. [ March 13, 2008, 11:04 PM: Message edited by: bodkin ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdstrike Posted March 14, 2008 Share Posted March 14, 2008 I can confirm this issue. It may affect all units in prone position behind a low wall. I had a sniper unit with the exact same problem. The new LOS mechanism seems to make it impossible for them to see anything on the other side, unless it's very close or very big, or as bodkin pointed out, the unit is kneeling directly behind the wall. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dima Posted March 14, 2008 Share Posted March 14, 2008 Guys, please understand that there will be a lot better chance of something fixed IF you provide a savegame or replay demonstrating the problem. So far I haven't received anything in my Inbox. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodkin Posted March 14, 2008 Author Share Posted March 14, 2008 Dima I'll send you a few test scenarios tomorrow. Just to add something here, putting the unit right up next to the wall will make some of the squad kneel and therefore be able to ambush, however they are then easily spotted by approaching enemy forces often before they get a shot off. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdstrike Posted March 14, 2008 Share Posted March 14, 2008 After looking into it again. I think the problem I encountered is slightly different. My squad is kneeling behind the wall, but is still unable to see beyond it. Will send you a file right away, Dima. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dima Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 Originally posted by birdstrike: After looking into it again. I think the problem I encountered is slightly different. My squad is kneeling behind the wall, but is still unable to see beyond it. Will send you a file right away, Dima. Thanks Birdstrike, I've received your savegame and will report this issue to the developers. I just wanted to double-check, are you running the latest patch 1.07? Bodkin, please send me your savegames too, in case problem you are seeing is caused by something else. Thanks guys! Dima 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdstrike Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 Yes, I'm running paradox v1.07. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the Fighting Seabee Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Cpl Steiner: birdstrike, I had a similar problem when replaying my "Kurds Attack!" scenario today to assess what changes were needed to it. I had a two-man RPG team advance up to a bunker behind a low wall. When the team was moving they had a clear LOS to the bunker but as soon as they stopped they dropped prone and the bunker went out of sight. It seems that some soldier types (RPG gunners being one) are unable to change their posture to fire at targets they can obviously engage but currently can't see due to being prone behind blocking terrain such as a low wall or the lip of a trench. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Great point. Hopefully Steve or someone will see this. I think this could be fixed somewhat easily... IF a squad is on the same 8x8 tile as a low wall, THEN they should be able to see over it, WHILE being hidden from enemies who are beyond the 8x8 tile. Seems like that would fix it. That's why soldiers tend to sit behind low walls, because they can see over and be hidden. ''Sorry for double post, didn't see this thread yet. -------------------- theFightingSeabee 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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