gibsonm Posted November 8, 2001 Share Posted November 8, 2001 G'day, For a while now I've put up with the 640 x 480 res that Open GL 1.2.2 gives me in CMBO. Previously under 9.1 I could easily get 1024 x 768 out of my G4 Ti PB. However the upgrade to 9.2.1 brought with it Open GL 1.2.2 and lower resolution and that's no longer acceptable. Open GL 1.2.1 appears to provide 3 main components: ATI drivers Open GL Quicktime 3D My question is, which of these to I need to downgrade to in order to restore the previous resolution (instinct suggests that QT 3D can stay) and if I do backout to 1.2.1 what features of OS 9.2.1 will I loose? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cameroon Posted November 8, 2001 Share Posted November 8, 2001 <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by gibsonm: G'day, For a while now I've put up with the 640 x 480 res that Open GL 1.2.2 gives me in CMBO. Previously under 9.1 I could easily get 1024 x 768 out of my G4 Ti PB. However the upgrade to 9.2.1 brought with it Open GL 1.2.2 and lower resolution and that's no longer acceptable. Open GL 1.2.1 appears to provide 3 main components: ATI drivers Open GL Quicktime 3D My question is, which of these to I need to downgrade to in order to restore the previous resolution (instinct suggests that QT 3D can stay) and if I do backout to 1.2.1 what features of OS 9.2.1 will I loose?<hr></blockquote> This isn't an answer to your question, but it might be of interest. I've got OS 9.2.1 w/ OpenGL 1.2.2 on a G3 B&W. My resolution doesn't change at all when I play CM. I know this for certain because resolution-unaware applications aren't affected. I would imagine that you could downgrade OpenGL without any problems. Just replace the OpenGL extensions would be my guess. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schrullenhaft Posted November 8, 2001 Share Posted November 8, 2001 I assume that you're probably running in software mode at 640 x 480 (though I believe 800 x 600/832x624 is supported for software rendering on the Mac). So the 3D capabilities of your video card aren't being detected by CM. Assuming that you're running with just OS 9.2.1 and not in conjunction with OS X, then I'd suggest removing the Classic RAVE extension, which seems to be the default RAVE extension/driver loaded up with OS 9.2.1. However I'm not sure where to get a replacement RAVE extension which should be necessary for 3D hardware acceleration (maybe if you still have access to the OpenGL 1.2.1 installer with all of the ATI drivers in it). Several users have had problems with OS 9.2.1 and BTS has recommended against using this OS with CM. Other games and apps seem to have problems with this latest OS. I don't know if the OpenGL 1.2.2 extension is responsible or not for the problem you're seeing. You can try to replace just the OpenGL extension with version 1.2.1 and see if it makes a difference (or if it even works). I'm also not sure of the differences between the ATI drivers in 9.1 and 9.2.1, but they would be the most likely culprit if the OpenGL extension switch doesn't make a difference. [ 11-07-2001: Message edited by: Schrullenhaft ]</p> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gibsonm Posted November 8, 2001 Author Share Posted November 8, 2001 Gentlemen, Thanks for your responses. I must say that (touch wood) CMBO is running fine on the PB apart from the resolution. Perhaps I should just do the swap and find out. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rum Posted November 8, 2001 Share Posted November 8, 2001 Gibsonm, very stupid advice - did you tryed to trash the Combat Mission preferences file? It was halped me then i encountered problemss under OS 9.2.1 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyrene Posted November 8, 2001 Share Posted November 8, 2001 Gibsonm: Try rum's advice first, delete the prefs file. If that doesn't work, then download OpenGL 1.2.1 and then use Tome Viewer to remove the extensions from the installer Tome (Scroll down the Installer disk image window). The 1.2.1 installer won't work because of your newer version already in, bu all you have to do is just swap out the 1.2.2 extensions with the 1.2.1 extensions you just pulled from the installer, and reboot. Save your 1.2.2 extensions just in case this doesn't fix the problem! if the problem remains, then I'd stick with the newer OpenGL. Gyrene 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gibsonm Posted November 8, 2001 Author Share Posted November 8, 2001 Gyrene and Rum, Yes I have deleted the pref's and I do have Tome Viewer (that's how I know what is in the installer). BTW the name is Mark. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyrene Posted November 9, 2001 Share Posted November 9, 2001 Mark, have you tried to do the standard general troubleshooting steps - zapping the PRAM, rebuilding the desktop & running an app like TechTool? You probably have, and your problem is probably not related to something those steps would fix it wouldn't hurt. Just to verify:You have the complete extension set for the ATI card + all the OpenGL/Quickdraw extensions? Do you have any other RAVE based games to try out? Older games like Tomb Raider or Unreal that use RAVE. Gyrene 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gibsonm Posted November 10, 2001 Author Share Posted November 10, 2001 Gyrene, I haven't played with the PRAM (or run TechTool or SystemWorks) as the machine is running fine with all my apps (and as a Mac Tech guy - I've got more than a few). As I say, CMBO runs fine apart from the resolution. I used to have a WallStreet II and that ran at 640 x 480 due to VRAM restrictions. Then I got the Ti and I could run 1152 x 768 in millions of colours, then I upgraded to 9.2.1 and bang back to 640 x 480. I've let it be for a while (looking at OS X.1 etc) but I thought about fixing it the other day. I had already disabled Classic Rave and again the games works fine apart from the resolution. I'm happy to swap parts of Open GL 1.2.1 with 1.2.2 to get it to work properly but I was just curious if anyone knew what the effects of this were. I don't want to get CMBO to work and loose something else. Mark 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gibsonm Posted November 18, 2001 Author Share Posted November 18, 2001 An update, I tried swapping out Open GL 1.2.2 components for 1.2.1 but with no luck (messages about being unable to load the required 3D drivers). Then I went back to troubleshooting first principles and detached my external AppleVision 21" monitor and rebooted. Everything now runs fine with 9.2.1 and Open GL 1.2.2 on the Ti's screen (1152 x 768 at millions of colours). The icing on the cake will be to get it running on the external screen too (but I may have to sacrifice colours or resolution to do that). But this is fine for the time being. Enjoy your Thanksgiving! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schrullenhaft Posted November 18, 2001 Share Posted November 18, 2001 This sounds like some sort of 'dual-head' issue. You have only one display chip with a set amount of memory driving two displays. When your 21" external was attached I assume that it wasn't mirroring the LCD display, but doing the standard Apple 'desktop expansion' as a secondary monitor. I'm not sure how the Radeon Mobility's 16Mb of display memory gets divided up between the two screens, but this may be what is affecting your resolution/3D capabilities. It's possible that 9.2.1 changed how the video memory was managed between two displays on a laptop or it changed some other display options that had allowed you to run CM on the external display. Do you have the capability of disabling your internal LCD display when you hook up an external monitor ? If not can you perform 'mirroring' instead of 'desktop expansion' (I would guess 'no' to the latter option) ? Perhaps reducing the resolution and color depth of the LCD display when the external is hooked up may help. Otherwise this may just be another problem that 9.2.1 has to have 'worked out'. [ 11-17-2001: Message edited by: Schrullenhaft ]</p> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gibsonm Posted November 19, 2001 Author Share Posted November 19, 2001 Schrullenhaft, "When your 21" external was attached I assume that it wasn't mirroring the LCD display, but doing the standard Apple 'desktop expansion' as a secondary monitor." Actually no it was mirroring and the Control Strip gives me numerous resolutions for both and can support different numbers of colours on both as well. I use mirroring as I usually close the PB's lid and just use the external screen (however the idea of a CMBO landscape streching across two monitors is very interesting - could improve situational awareness). With the PB at 1152 x 768 (millions), the AV 850 is happy to mirror 1152 x 870 @75Hz (millions). If I start CMBO, the PB drops to 640 x 480 and the AV850 stalls at the "loading 3D images screen" (Churchill with the flags around it). The game loads and runs fine on the PB (just at this lower res). Once I quit from the game the PB and AV850 revert to the resolutions available prior to running the game. The AV850 can also spt 1024 x 768 @ 85Hz (and lower if needs be). What I might try is setting the AV850 to 000's of colours and 1024 x 768 and see what happens. I'll give it a try and get back to you. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gibsonm Posted November 19, 2001 Author Share Posted November 19, 2001 Schrullenhaft, I dropped the PB and AV850's resolution down to 1024 x 768 (000's) and tried mirroring again. Same result - AV850 stopped at the 3D graphics screen and the PB ran at 640 x 480. I don't want to drop the resolution any further than that so I'm happy to play with the PB screen only (at 1152 x 768 and millions). FYI. I did try "desktop expansion" as well with the following results. Which ever screen (PB or AV850) was allocated the menu bar would run the game at 640 x 480 and the other screen would just display the desktop (ie the game only ran on one screen, not spread across both). Maybe I need to wait for Open GL 1.2.3? I know CMBO is no longer being patched and I'm not expecting anything to change from BTS's end (apart from collecting my winter issue kit and painting my AFV's white as I head Ost). [ 11-18-2001: Message edited by: gibsonm ]</p> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schrullenhaft Posted November 19, 2001 Share Posted November 19, 2001 Do the textures on your screen look pretty blocky when you're running at 640 x 480 ? It sounds as if you're still running in Software Rendering mode when you have the AV850 hooked up. When you run with the AV850 disconnected you're getting 1152x870 in CM ? When you trash your Prefs file is the AV850 hooked up when you launch CM again ? Reading through the Apple Discussion forums some people believe that the video drivers in 9.2.1 have changed for the worse. There was also a suggestion to disable (actually remove from the System Folder) any video extensions that aren't applicable to your hardware (in your case that would be any NVidia related drivers). Some people have even suggested downgrading to the 9.1 ATI drivers (one poster claimed good results, but they were after higher refresh rates primarily). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gibsonm Posted November 19, 2001 Author Share Posted November 19, 2001 Schrullenhaft, I'll send you these answers direct. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gibsonm Posted December 6, 2001 Author Share Posted December 6, 2001 To all, I now have 9.2.2 in my hands and will try this. I'll let you know how it goes. Driver - prepare to advance! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gibsonm Posted December 7, 2001 Author Share Posted December 7, 2001 Ian (Schrullenhaft), These are my results after testing with 9.2.2 9.2.2/Ext monitor/Nvidia in Ext folder = No image on Ext and PB at 640 x 480 9.2.2/ No Ext monitor/Nvidia in Ext folder = PB at 1152 x 768 9.2.2/Ext monitor/ No Nvidia in Ext folder = No image on Ext and PB at 640 x 480 9.2.2/ No Ext monitor/No Nvidia in Ext folder = PB at 1152 x 768 So I'm happy to use the PB only. BTW: The Nvidia extension is now 2.4 rather than 1.1.1 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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