A few observations from a CM old-timer

[GriffinCheng+]

Well, after fixing the reboot problem, I finally have the chance to run the training scenarios uninterrupted. Generally, the game is pretty nice but well, I don't know if it is fair to compare this with CM, here are a number of things I really wish someone to address with.

First, is there anyway for PaK (ah, okay, AT guns) to get dug in or at least with some sort of sandbags? AT guns has general "service life" for less than 2 minutes in open, a bit more behind trees. Well, that is not very good when compared with "M4A3"...I tried to put them "into" trenches but it just doesn't fit. Some time it could be quite frustrating. From the "tests" I had, I guess it applies to PaK in general, and not necessary a Russian "problem".

Is here any C&C? I don't know if the platoon leader has any effect on the troops in general, or how the "leadership" attribute works. Moreover, is there any way I can identify the command structure from the unit details? May be I should go back to RTFM. I can't help but to feel amazed by how the game lets me recognise an office over 100m away, cause I always tell my MG to shoot "that guy with a funny hat" first.

Will the tactics "shoot the panzer commander" and "harass a panzer with HMG" work the same in ToW? I only tried assaulting a PzII once with a grunt using grenade, while another rifleman is providing "cover fire". And viola! It works and the blow up animation is amazing. I wonder no external review mention this, because of the "entertainment" value involved. (However, the reader should note that this sense of achievement lasts no more than 5 seconds when our "hero" is shot into pieces by a PzIII nearby)

Unlike in CMBB, the panzer rifle (oops, the anti-tank rifle) is very disappointing. In many tries of that defense tutorial, it never scores a kill! And I was too busy to note if it ever hits.

I have yet to meet the mortar and the panzerfrausts.

So much for now.

[SlapHappy]

GriffenCheng

Thanks for bringing up the point about lack of gun pits. I was just getting ready to post something to that affect. I tried to "manufacture" something with the map editor, but it just isn't possible with the existing objects.

I was also disappointed to find you can't stack objects like sandbags. this makes it really hard to build better defensive positions in the game.

I was envisioning being able to "knock out" a wall section and then fortify around it a bit with sandbags then stick an HMG or AT gun in there. Thought it might give them a little bit better survivability for at least a few seconds more....

[wokelly]

The only problem with gun trenches is that, like trenches, they cant be moved and all you have to do is call arty down on them even if you cant see the guns since trenches still show even with Fog of War in game.

[SlapHappy]

Good point.

[Snow Leopard]

Unlike in CMBB, the panzer rifle (oops, the anti-tank rifle) is very disappointing. In many tries of that defense tutorial, it never scores a kill! And I was too busy to note if it ever hits.

[/QB]

Oh, I did score some kills with anti-tank rifle. few time BT-7 blew up. It have to be in close up range depend how thick armor is(check chart). Also I love to use it if I want to capture tank is be patient wait in hide spot until get close up then shoot at side of turret to kill/wound gunner then wait for tank turn around then shoot at hull in front to kill/wound driver then it will go gray out or crew bail out. It work on me many time even few time tank blew up so close to attacker. Sometime engine catch fire. Also HEAT ammo from tank is my favorvite to capture heavy tank as it have to be so close to get one shot score then able to capture it. Standard rifle fire will able kill/wound crew inside light armored vehicles if really close up if aim at right place.

[Destraex]

I have also scored kills with AT Rifles.

[Pandur]

Thanks for bringing up the point about lack of gun pits.

well, in fact WE HAVE gunpits. UNFORTUNATELY someone in defelopement decided to not let HMG´s and AT guns to allowed in it.

its a little redicoulous i feel.

the gun pit is a bit deep, but is big enogh to fit a AT gun in. problem is that the gun would need to hoover about 50cm in the air otherwhise they wuld stand too deep

EDIT:

well the arms wich get ramed/buried in the groundw would stick into the walls a bit and the crew would need to be squeezed into the pit, but heck, fine with me as long as this stuff can use cover and not just concealment.

Unlike in CMBB, the panzer rifle (oops, the anti-tank rifle) is very disappointing. In many tries of that defense tutorial, it never scores a kill! And I was too busy to note if it ever hits.

i didnt bother to use the boys or Panzerbüchse so far. the russian one however is "1337"

ontly thing iam really dissapointed with is that they cut down these weapons to a maximum range... :mad:

oh, and it is talked about AT guns i think becouse Pa"k!"´s had just the germans and not everyone

as with panzerbüchsen or panzer rifles/AT rifles.

if it is kept unspecific its ok with me...

[ June 28, 2007, 08:50 AM: Message edited by: Pandur ]

[nachinus]

Rather than having gunpits drawn on the map, which as it has been said, would be detected by the enemy since map objets are not affected by fog of war, I'd suggest that AT guns deployed at the deployment phase get a small hide+defence bonus to abstract the time that the crew has had to prepare its position. It could be graphically represented by adding some static sandbags, bushes or cammouflage nets to the 3d model of the AT gun at the beggining of the scenario. Nothing too fancy or spectacular, just some cheap small 3d models here and there to give visual information. Of course this bonus and gfx will dissapear as soon as the gun moves or even rotates. This method would not alter the map, would not need decals, and thus would not be seen by the enemy.

Oh, and IIRC there are some working gunpits drawn on some maps, just don't remember which ones, but I do remember bombing them just from the start just in case...

[SlapHappy]

Which maps? The new ones with the Moscow Campaign? I've seen some sandbag "half-circles" where guns are posted, but there is no change in the elevation of the posted ground which would make it truly a "gun pit".

[nachinus]

No, I havent played new maps yet, I think it was in some single mission map, but you may be right and they were no proper gunpits but just some points reforced with sandbags and cammo.

[GriffinCheng+]

I just happen to notice there is no "hide" capability of all units as well.

Will lay in prone position help?

[Destraex]

laying prone, holding fire and holding position

[GriffinCheng+]

After playing "Operation - Whirlwind", which is insanely hard, I can't help but find out that all PaKs and HMGs can be nested. I don't have the screenshot here handy, but you can load up and see that yourself.

Panzerfraust can be very deadly, on the other hand my zook seems to have a lot of problems hitting something, even if a clear LOS is indicated. It always tries to get closer. The 2nd complaint would be the zook guy always fires his handgun when I tell him to hit that vechicle....

And I am quite surprised to see zook is not in the form of a team, without a loader.

Enjoy.