Gurra Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 Hi guys! I have plodded on with the demo some time now, and feel indecisive. Except from the difficulty in getting to grips with the camera (why is it so not tight, more like a fat little boat on water that you´re trying to steer) and a awkwardness in general (knowing the cm games in and out), still there is something in this game that keeps me coming back. I quit after a session with lame impressions, but after a few hours I feel like trying again. So, in short, the demo hasn´t convinced me. The question is: will the full version do that? Are the scenarios getting better in the campaigns? Also, the sound in the game, even with EAX, isn´t top notch? Some guns sounds whimpy. Only me, or do everybody think so? Is the pdf-manual the same for both demo and full version? I can´t find some things, that should be there, like better explanation of controls. (Hope I haven´t just missed those parts. In that case I apologize.) I would like to like this game and own it, but I don´t know if will be able to. Anybody who recognizes the feeling and could share his viewpoint? Best Regards Gurra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ankh Morpork Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 I do agree with you, feels like a fat little boat indeed! Don't worry about the sound - concidering how many mods for CM there are, im sure there will be somebody who makes a proper soundpack for this game soon. I haven't recieved my manual yet so I have no idea what it looks like. It's an excellent game - only really bad thing about it can be found in the url below http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=63;t=001281#000002 I wish they'd use the games gfx engine for the CM games too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewood Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 I would also suggest going around to some of the other forums like wargamer, Armchair General, and Simhq for opinions. My main suggestion is wait for feedback on the patch if you haven't made your mind up already. I find some parts of TOW quite good, but after every game, I find myself firing up CMBB for a spin. I am hoping the patch cures that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlR Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 Im an old CMer too and I have had exactly the same experience. Kept dumping the demo then going back for one more try! Finally can beat the AI on medium with morale on. Camera needs to be tweaked. Get the mouse and keyboard sensitivity set up right and the controls work extremely well......better than CM. Crucially, dont allow the mouse wheel zoom to be set too fast..... I find sound is better with EAX off & sound is to be improved in the patch. As I understand it the scenarios are basically puzzles, and like all puzzles there is a desire to keep going back till you have it solved. I'm waiting for the patch then will buy if the major flaws (esp LOS/LOF) are sorted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hensworth Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 If you don't like the demo then I would advise you not to buy it. The game is more of the same. There's really nothing there to discover that you can't judge with the demo. No careful scenario design to mitigate game deficiencies or anything like that. When I got the full game I played through the training scenarios and tried the first battle of the Polish campaign. That gave me a good enough impression of what the game is like and I haven't touched it since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom3d Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 hmmmm I really didin´t like about the DEMO, and I like too much the game, everybody have a self opinion about the game, I really like. So is up to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeezgob Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 Like you I've only played the demo and have been playing the CM series for some years. I thought the demo was avery poor advert for the game, so have decided to hold off making any decison about TOW until a patch is released. But ass the ability for infantry to use buildings and any sort of developed multiplayer will only be avilable in another pay for add on, I don't think it will be someting I'll be purchasing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R33GZ Posted June 12, 2007 Share Posted June 12, 2007 Hi Gurra, Im an old school CM'er and Ive purchased the full version of TOW. Ive been playing it for about a month now. I like TOW, it DEFINATLEY has a list of problems to be solved, but inspite of the frustrations I still like it, and like you say... I keep coming back for more Having said that, I wouldnt buy it expecting to get the same enjoyment you have had out of the CM series... it is not Combat Mission, it is Theatre of War. If you want next gen CM then my opinion would be that you wait for CMSF. If you are going to buy this game, then make the purchase knowing that you are getting something different... thats my 2 cents I guess. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freeboy Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 dito, lots of fun, needs some tweeking and the camara can work too, old time cm vet... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jippo Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 Originally posted by tom3d: hmmmm I really didin´t like about the DEMO, and I like too much the game, everybody have a self opinion about the game, I really like. So is up to you. Same here. I thought the demo was pretty crap, but decided to buy the game anyway. I like the game much better, a lot actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FinnN Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 The demo missions are very poor - if that was all I'd played and I hadn't pre-ordered then I can say for sure that I wouldn't buy the game. The mission with the AT guns in particular is appalling, and whilst the 'real' mission that's included has lots of 'cool stuff' it highlights performance issues when you have too many units floating around. If you give it a chance the game itself is a lot better, through still with some serious issues. The bad things which the demo highlights aren't such a problem in most of the campaign missions. Potentially the game could be really great, and it's more of a case of balancing and mission design than anything else so I'm fairly hopeful. Have fun Finn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fifty Cal' Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 I'd say buy it, The more I play this game the more I notice just how much is going on, when I first started I played it like I played CM, from a fair height, looking down from my helicopter, ordering everyone about. They all got killed and I had to try again. Wat waass going on ? Now I'm playing the game from much "lower", For example, I'll pick the middle tank of 3, press enter and be sat looking out of the turret I spin my view around to watch the other tanks move up to a ridge line, I'll click on one of the other tanks tell him to stop and hold then do the same with the other tank All while still being in the turret of the middle tank. I also often jump between units with the enter key, from "down here" it's much easier to see LOS-LOF differences, I can see a trench line but it's clear my main gun can't fire at it, creep forward a bit and boom, the gun fires. And the amount of detail is great, ie, I sent an armoured troop carrier forward, pressed enter and got the view of the gunner sat on top, I look behind me and I can see the 6 troops sat in the back, I give them the disembark command and watch them swing out, one by one sleeves rolled up ready for action, I then give them the order to advance, I watch as they got shot down. Huh, I wasn't this bad in CM ? The reason, IMO, TofW appears different to CM is that in CM you had 3 or so troops "represent" a squad, if you lost a couple of guys in that squad you would still see all the "representatives", it wasn't so obvious you'd lost people, in TofW you watch each guy get shot, you can see what's shooting them and so discover what rubbish orders you gave! I know it's a bit of a pain having to continually issue "hold" commands to stop officers and vehicles advancing into trouble but at least I know where all my troops are at any one time. I'm used to that now. Apart from that, the tactics remain the same, just that Infantry "appear" more vulnerable. The "ground" is much more accurately portrayed than in CM and I still sneak the odd guy forward with a "hold fire" command to see what's going on "over the hill" I just have to remember to tell him to "hold position" once he's under a bush! Once we've had a few patches I won't know how often I'll play CM anymore. .50 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurra Posted June 13, 2007 Author Share Posted June 13, 2007 Thanks for your opinions, good aspects in all of them. Well, I still haven´t decided... about the scenarios in the campaign, I appreciated the command & control demo scenario the most (number four I think)- interesting small tactics, then a bit of a change when you to defend for yourself and you get to use some AT guns and in the end possess a single tank. It seems as though the game functions better with small engagements. It´s of course easier to control fewer units, less performance probs and so on, but on to the question: do the campaigns contain these kind of situations or is it more common with large battles where you really have to struggle with camera, lots of units and demo scenario number two difficulties? Thanks for the help Gurra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freeboy Posted June 13, 2007 Share Posted June 13, 2007 I actually, now like the camara, I invert the strange up is down thing the designers have, same with the alt 123 for targeting.. and now the camara seems second nature Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragon6 Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 Originally posted by Fifty Cal': I'd say buy it, The more I play this game the more I notice just how much is going on, when I first started I played it like I played CM, from a fair height, looking down from my helicopter, ordering everyone about. They all got killed and I had to try again. Wat waass going on ? Now I'm playing the game from much "lower", For example, I'll pick the middle tank of 3, press enter and be sat looking out of the turret I spin my view around to watch the other tanks move up to a ridge line, I'll click on one of the other tanks tell him to stop and hold then do the same with the other tank All while still being in the turret of the middle tank. I also often jump between units with the enter key, from "down here" it's much easier to see LOS-LOF differences, I can see a trench line but it's clear my main gun can't fire at it, creep forward a bit and boom, the gun fires. And the amount of detail is great, ie, I sent an armoured troop carrier forward, pressed enter and got the view of the gunner sat on top, I look behind me and I can see the 6 troops sat in the back, I give them the disembark command and watch them swing out, one by one sleeves rolled up ready for action, I then give them the order to advance, I watch as they got shot down. Huh, I wasn't this bad in CM ? The reason, IMO, TofW appears different to CM is that in CM you had 3 or so troops "represent" a squad, if you lost a couple of guys in that squad you would still see all the "representatives", it wasn't so obvious you'd lost people, in TofW you watch each guy get shot, you can see what's shooting them and so discover what rubbish orders you gave! I know it's a bit of a pain having to continually issue "hold" commands to stop officers and vehicles advancing into trouble but at least I know where all my troops are at any one time. I'm used to that now. Apart from that, the tactics remain the same, just that Infantry "appear" more vulnerable. The "ground" is much more accurately portrayed than in CM and I still sneak the odd guy forward with a "hold fire" command to see what's going on "over the hill" I just have to remember to tell him to "hold position" once he's under a bush! Once we've had a few patches I won't know how often I'll play CM anymore. .50 wow!!! fifty cal you get it. Its a shame more people dont understand this game. Fighting down on the ground level and using the terrain is what seperates this game from the rest. Combat Arms Schools spend lots of time teaching terrain analysis for planning mission orders. I have seen officers chewed out repeatedly for failing to use the terrain correctly. If they get the multiplayer working better I would enjoy meeting you on the TOW battlefield for a friendly challenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FinnN Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 Problem is, at ground level you can't tell how much cover you're getting from bushes. One bush is opaque, but not enough to give an infantryman cover - you need two in my experience. As the bush is opaque you just can't tell if you're behind one, two, three, or whatever items - you can only do it from above. Enter view is good for cresting and going around hills and subtle terrain variations (which is important), but not much good for much else apart from the nice graphics. My infantry survive a lot longer since I started doing that. Have fun Finn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeezgob Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 Spot on Finn. It's a fundamental flaw in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fifty Cal' Posted June 16, 2007 Share Posted June 16, 2007 Dragon6, That'd be a challenge, I wonder how the pause button works in multiplayer? my guess is it's disabled.... Let's hope I get to defend hehe Yes in real life ground is fundemental for infantry, but why does all the best cover have to be so wet? FinnN, Thanks for mentioning this (about see-through bushes) I hadn't noticed this, I just thought I wasn't hiding people properly. .50 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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