A copy protection question for the devs

[Sapper_astro]

Hello guys and girls,

I like the look of this game quite a bit, seems like something I may want to pick up when its out, however I have a couple of questions first.

What campaigns are included in the game? And what are the duration of these campaigns?

I would like to know whether a physical copy shipped to me needs online registration.

Thank you.

[Moon]

There are five campaigns - US/UK (a combined "Allies" campaign), France, Poland, Russia and Germany. Some campaigns are really short with only a handful of battles, some are much longer. The longest one I think is the German campaign. Overall, there are around 40 (or was it 50?) campaign missions I think. Check the product page, it should mention a number there.

The duration for each mission ranges from 15-20 minutes for the short ones to probably close to an hour for the longer. But this depends on your tactics. There is no game timer, and no battle will end due to expired time or something like that.

Physical copies require the same activation as downloaded copies. The quickest way is to do this online, but there is also an off-line procedure (thought more complicated) for computers without internet access for example.

Martin

[Sapper_astro]

There are five campaigns - US/UK (a combined "Allies" campaign), France, Poland, Russia and Germany. Some campaigns are really short with only a handful of battles, some are much longer. The longest one I think is the German campaign. Overall, there are around 40 (or was it 50?) campaign missions I think. Check the product page, it should mention a number there.

The duration for each mission ranges from 15-20 minutes for the short ones to probably close to an hour for the longer. But this depends on your tactics. There is no game timer, and no battle will end due to expired time or something like that.

Now that sounds very nice. Nothing wrong with that answer at all. However...

Physical copies require the same activation as downloaded copies. The quickest way is to do this online, but there is also an off-line procedure (thought more complicated) for computers without internet access for example.

Why? Is this new or something? I ordered all my Combat Mission games here (Physical copies) and they don't have this on them.

Sorry, but I honestly don't like the online registration system. If it has to be for download version, I am happy to order a physical copy but not if its both.

If this policy changes then Im in for sure, but not with online reg. Nothing personal. And I thank you for you answers Martin.

Greg

[Moon]

Greg, it's "new" since about summer last year, when we switched from physical copy protection (cd-check) to the eLicense system. This policy is not going to change, sorry.

Martin

[Reichenberg]

Originally posted by Sapper_astro:

....Why? Is this new or something? I ordered all my Combat Mission games here (Physical copies) and they don't have this on them.

Sorry, but I honestly don't like the online registration system....

Greg [/QB]

Greg in CM you always had to have the original CD in one of the disk drives. I personally find this more annoying than the online licensing once after installation. I have way more flexibility afterwards!! Or dared you to use some noCD "components" on your CM installation??

And I, as a Battlefront customer and hopefully satisfied ToW customer, can hope that there will be less pirated copies on the market. Therefore the chances of a ToW sequel or add-on are higher due to higher sales profits for Battlefront and 1C. Hence it would be an advantage for me (if it actually turns out to be harder to pass the copy protection that it is).

Uwe

[Valgua]

Originally posted by Reichenberg:

Greg in CM you always had to have the original CD in one of the disk drives. I personally find this more annoying than the online licensing once after installation. I have way more flexibility afterwards!!

True. Online registation isn't a big deal, expecially if you compare it to something like starforce...

Filippo

[Sapper_astro]

Of course I would prefer not having to use my CD, but as I don't use internet on my gaming rig, it is a major pain to register the game.

Another thing I prefer is 'owning' the game, as in if something happens to battlefront i can still use my game. I still play plenty of old games where the company doesn't exist anymore. This would be impossible if they had elicenses.

I have no personal crusade against BF, and would love to play their new games, but Im just not about to take that chance in regards to elicenses. I wanted to play Galciv2 as well, and HL2, but won't due to the same reasons.

As I said, nothing personal at all. Just a shame that both physical copies and downloaded copies have this system.

Martin: I have not ordered anything here since well before last summer. The only games I really wanted of BF's so far has been the CM games, and they are all dated well before then.

[ April 01, 2007, 11:11 AM: Message edited by: Sapper_astro ]

[Moon]

Off-line registration is not necessarily a major pain. Just more complicated than clicking a button

You install the game on the computer and generate an off-line license request. You copy that on a disc or USB stick and take it to a computer with an internet connection. You browse to the licensing site and upload or copy/paste your request file. You get a license file in return, and put that on your disc or USB stick. Take it back to your computer and resume the licensing process, upload your license file, click on licenses... there you go.

If Battlefront is not around anymore, we would release unprotected versions of all games before switching off the light. What is much more likely than that is that you won't be able to play the game in a few years on your new 16-core AI computer with quadruple video card because it won't be compatible with Windows EventHorizon...

Martin

[Bloodstar44]

Originally posted by Sapper_astro:

Of course I would prefer not having to use my CD, but as I don't use internet on my gaming rig, it is a major pain to register the game.

Another thing I prefer is 'owning' the game, as in if something happens to battlefront i can still use my game. I still play plenty of old games where the company doesn't exist anymore. This would be impossible if they had elicenses.

I have no personal crusade against BF, and would love to play their new games, but Im just not about to take that chance in regards to elicenses. I wanted to play Galciv2 as well, and HL2, but won't due to the same reasons.

As I said, nothing personal at all. Just a shame that both physical copies and downloaded copies have this system.

Martin: I have not ordered anything here since well before last summer. The only games I really wanted of BF's so far has been the CM games, and they are all dated well before then.

I think that this kind of activation is here to stay. There would be some who are not very satisfied but it is nececity.

Combat Mission didn't had any copy protection at all i think, what do you think pirating copies of CM have been around?

The game publisher are cornered to the wall - they have to protect their property or face extinction.

Battlefront.com just choosed to live, nothing else.

What is better - some annoyance for the customers or extinction of niche wargame publishers like Battlefront.com? Answer is quite obvious.

Pirating rate have taken an enormous protection.

Many kids on the planet and adults as well can have cheap DSL connection, many with flat rate and they download (leech) stuff trough Torrent etc... warez, movies, games, music, everything... even scanned comic books lol.

Some are leeching it almost 24h a day lol so they cannot even enjoy it properly.

Argument that many of them would not buy the game is true but at the same time - many of them would also play the game as well for free if not protected. Yeah, I know - it's same old, same old but Battlefront.com have my support in doing things like this.

And about playing the game after 10 years or owning the game or BF going out of business - there are many games that I want to play from the past. Playing Archon on emulator for C-64 don't bring me same emotion like playing it on original fatty Commodore 64. There are other games as well from the past that are clear headache to get it to work on todays PC. Yeah, I can run DosBOX and play that old game - but I just don't find TIME or have enough WILL to do it. Technology is changing too fast and hyperproduction of GOOD GAMES is also present.

Computer games are in fact passing entertainment.

Lately I have been playing game called Medievel II: Total War - now I really think that this game is really masterpiece, now I would have put it at top 30 games of all times. Do I want to play Rome Total War of MTW 1 or Shogun? NO, I don't have a slightest desire to play those games now. Call me a graphical whore but it's not just that.

Also I am big fan of Heros of Might and Magic. Nival have done great job in doing HOMM 5 and now I don't think that I could play HOMM 3 just like that, maybe 4...

And lastly I don't see any indication that Battlefront.com will go so soon out of business. It is plain wrong and damaging to the whole wargaming community to think that BF is there to trick someone and not release a patch if they go out of business. And wargamer need to support all good companies and most important GOOD GAMES.

Wargaming market is anyway so small so resulet no buying is damaging for this market as well. It will not bring any good to anyone, to customer no, and no to the publishers and developers.

And as some said here, if margin of pirating games lowers then we will see healthier wargaming market, and better games, and better selection.

And sorry for so long post, just one more sentence. Imagine situation that ALL major publishers go activation route - who will have more damage BF.com or EA if you choose to boycott BF.com?

EA as being mastrodont of game industry will IN ANY way have enough sales by it's brute force and presence in so many game shops, web retails etc...

So those who propose boycott to BF are just making a damage to whole wargaming "industry". That's all.

Mario

[graetwulff]

i am all for the elicense thing, but there should be safe guards.

like if i forget to undo the license and wipe my hard, and reninstall the game i should beable to get that license agian.

if these games was only $20.00 then find there would be no need for safe guards for me becuse i (mite) forget to undo the elicense, but at $40 or more , there has to be safe guards.

if there is not, that is just wrong

and we mite just need to get an law or 2 pass to get these safe guards.

[rune]

Well, if you look there are safeguards. If you forget the blow away elicense then you send a message to Battlefront, they confirm you bought and reset the license. Seems pretty easy to me.

Rune

[Sapper_astro]

Martin: Doesn't sound too bad, but I don't know yet. Will have to think about it first. Thanks for the heads up.

Mario: I honestly didn't think there was a giant pirating thing for wargames to tell you the truth. I can understand the kids attacking FPS games, or some other rubbish, but wargames?

As for M2TW, I think its a piece of junk, at the moment anyway. Its got enough bugs in it to sink a battleship. I much prefer MTW1 and Rome Total war with the Europa Barbarorum mod installed.

Same with HOMM5. I dislike the new way they have done things, and much prefer number 2 and 3. And still play them.

Hell, I still play Warlords 3 Darklords rising.

I guess the point I am making is that everyone is different. I do play old games, and am quite happy to tinker away with dosbox and emulators for C64 games. Just finished Legend of Blacksilver for the C64 again. I still play Carriers at war. I still play Paradroid!

You would be surprised how many weirdos there are like me around. We dislike a lot of the new stuff and only buy something when it really takes our fancy.

[Vergeltung]

lol, re your MTW2 comment. Played over 300 hours of it, and there was no major bug in sight.

in any event, the e-license thing is great. it's a no-brainer.

[Elmar Bijlsma]

Originally posted by Vergeltung:

lol, re your MTW2 comment. Played over 300 hours of it, and there was no major bug in sight.

Then you, sir, are not paying attention. There is a long long list of bugs, most fairly minor, some of them are pretty bad. Shield bonus are subtracted from armour instead of added, stuff like that. Ohwell, ignorance is bliss, eh?

[Bloodstar44]

Mario: I honestly didn't think there was a giant pirating thing for wargames to tell you the truth. I can understand the kids attacking FPS games, or some other rubbish, but wargames?

I hope that I got quoting right I am new at this forum

Well, Sapper Astro, there is pirating of wargames as well. As Battlefront.com is not so big I think that they benefit with this e-license. I have some friend here who believe it or not don't pay for computer games. They think that that is kind of throwing the money away, they find cracks on some sites etc... Mind you they are family man, wife, kids etc... All my arguments pro original games were in vain. Slowly but just slowly they start to realize something but again how many such people are there?

Also another factor Theatre of War is game that will be liked by wargamers AND strategy games fan, those who like MTW2 type games

BF.com can sell between 100000-200000 copies of this game, I really wish them success. If they make it we will hear cork openings on bottles of champagne lol in BF office hehe. So they need good protection. This game is mainstream game believe it or not. I was before game journalist btw. I still cannot grasp how Battlefront.com catched this big fish really. This is AA title that in fact biggest publisher would publish. but I am glad that it landed in BF.

As for M2TW, I think its a piece of junk, at the moment anyway. Its got enough bugs in it to sink a battleship. I much prefer MTW1 and Rome Total war with the Europa Barbarorum mod installed.

LOLZ

OK, you are the type of gamers that I respect, playing same type of game like me. Salute on that.

But I really disagree with you and really like MTW2. Yes, I've noticed many bugs but after this is squashed there is a real diamond in this game.

Same with HOMM5. I dislike the new way they have done things, and much prefer number 2 and 3. And still play them.

OK, I respect your opinion but again don't agree. yes 3 is perfect but 4 is also very good (I reviewd 4). 5 is also great with some minor things I don't like.

Hell, I still play Warlords 3 Darklords rising.

Here I completely agree with you. I didn't even tried patch for Warlords 4 some say that is now better game. Hey I played Warlords 1 on Amiga 500 with friends hot seat all night long! To not mention night sessions of legendary Steel Empire (Cyber Empires) made by Canadian studio Silicon Knights. I met those guys at E3 in USA. They still send me Christmas cards

I guess the point I am making is that everyone is different. I do play old games, and am quite happy to tinker away with dosbox and emulators for C64 games. Just finished Legend of Blacksilver for the C64 again. I still play Carriers at war. I still play Paradroid!

You would be surprised how many weirdos there are like me around. We dislike a lot of the new stuff and only buy something when it really takes our fancy.

Another thing that I respect. Salute again!

I am also old gamer and playing in fact games since 1985. Lot's of gems there on C-64, Amiga, PC... Neuromancer (by Interplay), Betrayal at Krondor by Dynamix... and many others to not mention them here... in that time idea was nmain thing not shine and blitz... some put a soul into those games.

Salute again from Croatia

Mario

[franz]

Elicence protection has already been cracked. All it takes is one copy of an unwrapped elicense game on the torrent networks, and thats it.

I think Strategic Command 2 was elicense protected wasn't it ? and look what happened there !

[Moon]

Everything can be cracked, eventually. If it happens a year after the release, we've won an important battle. We know the numbers exactly of how many torrent users there were for the last few releases, and how eLicense has helped.

Martin

[Bloodstar44]

Originally posted by Moon:

Everything can be cracked, eventually. If it happens a year after the release, we've won an important battle. We know the numbers exactly of how many torrent users there were for the last few releases, and how eLicense has helped.

Martin

Distant Guns from SES is not cracked yet

[Valgua]

Originally posted by Bloodstar44:

Distant Guns from SES is not cracked yet [/QB]

Great game btw. I don't have anything against eLicence as long as there are safeguards (in case of HD failure or human error) and a serious company as Battlefront promises the release of an unlicensed version of the game in case it went out of business.

I'm playing lots of old games too (it's in fact preventing me from even considering to get Vista) but I fully understand that a small company as Battlefront needs to get paid for every copy of the game. I'm an active supporter of wargame developers and publishers (may be too active, considering my economy...) so I appreciate that only paying customers play the games.

I'm thankful that Battlefront uses eLicence and not starforce or other methods that messes with my hardware (it's not a legend, I'm a victim of starf..ck).

Filippo

[Kellysheroes]

The problem with online registration only is that if/when the company goes bellyup (and we all know they all go bellyup eventually in this part of the gaming industry) and you have to reinstall your game on another computer or reformat or something you lost your game.

It would be better to have a setup like Matrixgames. Where you can download the exe, run the install register your game and then the game is ALWAYS open for reinstall even if matrixgames goes out of business. They allow you to make a backup copy of the game after downloading and registration that you can burn on a cd/dvd (patches included). This is the best method.

I personally won't buy or recommend to any other person games with this type of registration. So, if that means Combat Mission Campaigns and Shock Force and future modules of it also are going to require this "lame" online registration everytime I install the game or need to reinstall it then they won't be getting anymore of my money and I'll be sure an relay this information to all my friends and relatives and aquaintances as well.

[iplaygames2]

Originally posted by Kellysheroes:

The problem with online registration only is that if/when the company goes bellyup (and we all know they all go bellyup eventually in this part of the gaming industry) and you have to reinstall your game on another computer or reformat or something you lost your game.

Maybe you've missed the authoratative word on this. Moon has stated multiple times that, should Battlefront collapse, all of their games will be released unlocked. So, your copy of ToW will be able to be installed 500 times if you so choose.

Most companies that have the elicense stuff have a similar guarantee.

[Bloodstar44]

Originally posted by iplaygames2:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Kellysheroes:

The problem with online registration only is that if/when the company goes bellyup (and we all know they all go bellyup eventually in this part of the gaming industry) and you have to reinstall your game on another computer or reformat or something you lost your game.

Maybe you've missed the authoratative word on this. Moon has stated multiple times that, should Battlefront collapse, all of their games will be released unlocked. So, your copy of ToW will be able to be installed 500 times if you so choose.

Most companies that have the elicense stuff have a similar guarantee. </font>

[Vern_S]

Moon, do yourself and everyone else here a favor and lock this thread. There is nothing more that can be said here constructively and it's turning into a shameless rant by those that would argue any copy protection period. No sense in giving them a forum to continue there anti copy protection agenda. The only copy protection scheme that should be argued against at this time is Starforce which, thankfully, BF does not use.

[Moon]

No, I'm leaving this open. Those arguing against eLicense are using such thin arguments, you can see right through them. I'm glad to keep a forum open for that

Martin

[Vern_S]

I am a 3D Computer Artist using 3DS Max with Dozens of commercial plug-ins , Vue, Combustion, various other commercial 3D Apps and many Adobe products. If they think the eLicense that you are using is a pain they should try licensing all of the commercial software I use. A new workstation is both a wonderful joy and absolute hell!!!!