Timskorn Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 Hey modderites! Upon playing my mod several times I've been considering the best way to utilize US forces. The main problem is their lack of land forces. I have a good script for the US to land in NA, but ultimately there are some problems even if it is mildly successful. 1. Maximum units you can send are about 4 + HQ. If you start sending more than that, the US D-Day landing will suffer. 2. In my latest game the US captured everything from Algiers to El Algheila before I stopped them. The problem now is...garrisons! An Axis player can just amphib units to take back Algiers, Tunisia, etc and hem in the US forces. I could garrison them after taking Tunisia, but that's neither a good use of US troops nor effective as an Axis player could slowly take back each city with a couple units. 3. D-Day suffers. 4 units + HQ in North Africa means those units won't be used in D-Day, which ultimately has a bigger impact I think than North Africa. The US gets extra MPP's, including roughly 100 MPP total plunder from Algeria and Tunisia from invading NA. It also forces Axis troops away from Russia, but it's mostly Italian units and a couple German ones maybe. So this is the design problem posed to all you budding modder/designers out there! Is it worth using US units to invade North Africa? Is it possible to even have an effective US NA invasion, by holding their gains while simultaneously remaining on the offensive? All while leaving enough land power to make D-Day effective? I've been toying with some ideas. Here are some options I've been thinking of: A. All-in. The US sends 7-9 units plus 2 HQ's to NA. They stop at Tunisia and embark on Husky from there. Problems: No naval presence to protect amphib fleet. Would require dual landings, one at Palermo and one at Bari. Otherwise US units will get bogged down in the pass from Palermo to Bari and get chewed up. D-Day would be mostly US air units supporting the British. B. All-out. No NA invasion. All US troops are saved up for D-Day to maximize punch. Problems: No early pressure on the Axis. Italian/German troops in the med. will be free to head to Russia unless UK still surviving in Egypt. If I go this route, I may allow a script to send a couple units + HQ to Egypt if the UK is still there. Would still have plenty of troops for D-Day. C. Mix-in. Joint US/British NA invasion. 3-4 US units + HQ to Algiers, 2-3 British units sent to Egypt. Only if the UK is still in Egypt. Would allow attacks to come from east and west. Problems: Lots of gains in NA would mean empty, ungarrisoned cities. Even if the allies control all of NA, there's no way to send naval units there to protect the invasion lanes to Italy. D. Alt. invasion. US invades Portugal/Spain, or Norway/Sweden. Portugal/Spain are on the mainland so would allow the Axis to op-move a sizeable force there to thwart it quickly. Norway/Sweden would be tougher as they'd have to transport everyone. It'd also cut convoy shipments to Germany and allow the UK fleet to possibly get involved. Ultimately what the real issue here is Russia. If Russia is giving you a hard time and stretching you thin, a NA invasion would mean even less units available for Russia. If you're doing well in Russia, the allies would have to mount a big attack in NA to be successful. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin P. Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 Great Post, a few comments A) PS: Next Patch will include Plans for NAVAL units! Now all we need is plans for Parachute / Airborne units, no better way to take an unguarded city. B)If Egypy has fallen have you considered the Cairo Surprise - where USA units land to take an unoccupied Cairo or Alexandria and then liberate Syria and Baghdad. I have, just have to solve one AI quirk. AI Quirk - Getting AI to send more than 1 unit through the naval loops at the same time I also need to add USA landing at Suez to prevent Italy from operating troops back from Syria or Baghdad. D> US Invades Portugal/Spain I already have the scripts for this. It works pretty well except for a few AI quirks that HC is looking into. Quirk 1 - USA lands only 1 Unit on First Turn of DOW vs Portugal Quirk 2 - AI does not attack weakened units to destroy them. Quirk 3 - AI does not operate air units to Portugal to support attack on Spain. a. If Portugal, Spain and Vichy France are Neutral -- Invade Portugal, Buildup to Take Spain. HC has to fix the Amphibious landings so that more than one US units lands on the first invasion turn, otherwise Human player just reinforces Portugual. But once fixed Portugal will fall in 1 turn. --- All I have to add is a landing by a US corps to block that 1 tile wide link to between France and Spain. b. If Portugal, Spain are Neutral. The key to the US is operating in Air units to support the attack. Then with 8 to 9 USA units Madrid will quickly fall as USA units are reach Madrid in the DOW turn. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timskorn Posted June 22, 2006 Author Share Posted June 22, 2006 Hey Edwin! Yes I have considered the "Cairo Surprise", and at least having a small probability of it happening in a script would make an Axis player garrison that area. Ah yeah, unless you made a separate script for each one, you couldn't send multiple units through the naval loop in one script. Maybe next patch! I read your Portugal/Spain invasion scripts and will definitely consider adding them once those above issues are ironed out. This would be a good alternate invasion, sending all the US ground units there to move up through Spain to France, then launching a British D-Day to coincide with it. Good to hear about tasking naval units as well. I thought I remember HC mentioning that before patch 1.02. Will definitely help! Yeah I've noticed sometimes the AI will send US air to NA, othertimes not. They sent a bomber and fighter in my last game, but only after the US had streaked all the way to El Agheila. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin P. Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 Re: Cairo Surprise - It really boosts UK MPPs If Cairo is Liberated then England receives more MPPs from the Egyptian convoy, and if Iraq is liberated/conquered they receive more MPPs from the Iraq convoy also. From an MPP standpoint its more beneficial than freeing NA, if Egypt is not guarded by the Axis. PS: I have 4 sets of scripts for Spain/Portugal a. Spain & Portugal are Neutral b. Spain and Portugal are Axis conquered c. Portugal is Neutral and Spain is Axis Aligned d. Spain becomes Allied and USA is at War - SEND Reinforcements ASAP to Spain. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisND Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 Personally, I am holding off on any more scripting until some major changes are made to the AI, scripts, and editor. I don't have the time in my day to create work-arounds for things that should already be in place. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin P. Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 Normal Dude and Timshorn, What is the most important improvement to scripting that HC could make - aside from the Naval Plans which he is apparantly working on. For me I think that its Global Variables and Plans for moving Air units. What are your thoughts? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisND Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 Specifying types of units in scripts 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisND Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 basically improving the generic tactical AI in general 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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