Effect of the 120mm gun

[Drusus]

In a recent game I played using Apollo with 120mm gun. I was on a hill and there was an enemy using Hurricane. So I sneaked up to him and fired two shots of HEAT ammo directly to his side, aiming center of mass. He then fired back and got a first shot kill. Well, I dropped another Apollo there and fired two AP shots directly to his rear, again two perfect hits. He fired back and killed me off with first shot. I dropped another one and still fired one to his flank, this time killing him off. The problem? Well, I am supposed to be using the most powerful directfire weapon there is, I am firing at distance of ~200m and gaining perfect hits, four of them, but I am unable to kill him off. This happens against other vehicles too. The effects of a penetrating hits seem to be a bit on the low side. Just IMHO, ofcourse.

Am I doing something wrong or is that 120mm gun supposed to be that bad? Ofcourse on the other hand I did gain a 6000m kill with HEAT... It is really driving me mad when I get a perfect flanking move, but I am just unable to kill my opponent from side or even rear. To me it seems that firing HEAT to the rear armor should be quite deadly agains any vehicle. Or should I be firing to some weakpoint or something? Also, my kill ratio seems to be one kill for every 10 hits with 120mm gun. These are usually flank shots. Is that the way it is supposed to be? The only weapons I know that are really lethal are the heavy mortars. It seems that hitting with them is a nearly 100% sure kill against anything. No problem with that, but the Hurricane seems to be quite ideal in close combat at the moment, as it has the deadliest weapon, great speed and good armour rating, too.

Other things: If it would be possible to add a 3D internal schematics view mode to the final release, it would help really much when learning where the weak spots are.

On the positive side this is really promising game. Or I don't know if I can use the word promising here, as this is already really fun to play. And on the servers it seems that the tactical aspect of the game isn't used to its fullest potential. And that is propably the thing that is going to be _really_ cool once people start forming their own teams.

One minor issue more: It seems that you are using Gnu wget for the updater. I am not sure, but should you have a LGPL license text or something somewhere available?

BTW I am able to play this game with a computer that has Intel 865G graphics chipset (only 32M shared memory, I think). It is really below specs, but the game is playable when there isn't much happening. When there is a lot happening, I seem to die even when playing with a better computer, so no problem there

[ClaytoniousRex]

Drusus, your HEAT hits to the flank definitely should be very lethal - IF THEY PENETRATE. With HEAT rounds it can be difficult to see whether the round penetrated or not since its warhead always explodes (so you always see some kind of explosion even if it doesn't penetrate). You can see the difference by looking closely, though. When it penetrates, you will see the hot red spray of sparks. When it fails to penetrate, you will see the round "puff" without a shower of sparks. With dust, muzzle flashes, and the heat of the moment, you can't always see the difference, but once you learn what to look for you often can. The Hurricane is particularly tricky sometimes because it has so many sloped surfaces on its sides, but those rear hits of yours should have done the trick for sure.

Based on your description of events it sounds like there may be a problem with the Hurricane's side and rear armor. Do you remember what server you were on and what time you were on it, so I can go look at the server log (every single projectile hit is logged in detail so I can see exactly what happened when you were hitting that Hurricane). Thanks!

[Drusus]

Sorry, I don't have this information. I think it was this morning around 9:30 am finnish time (gmt+2) and the map was the "green one". It wasn't capture the flag and there were many players on the server. I think I haven't played with the computer after that, so there might be a log still on my computer about the game. I also got ~4500m dropship kill with HEAT if that helps you to find the server Is there a log on my computer about the hits, it would be fun to be able to check out if I did actually hit with that 7000m+ HEAT round even if I can do that only when outside of the game.

I will keep a log where I am playing here on so that I can tell you when I found bugs (that is, when I get killed...) I don't know if the 76mm cannon is supposed to penetrate the back of the Thor, because once I fired ten 76mm AP rounds to the rear of a Thor, but to no effect. Some to the center of hull mass, and some to different portions because I was trying to found a weak spot.

Also, is the "kills himself" thing working properly? If I damage my opponent to the point he decides to kill himself do I get a kill? I am quite sure it doesn't work. Atleast the text doesn't show that you got a kill. I think it might be a good idea to put the vehicle in "leave ship" mode when you kill yourself. The vehicle is still there for 30s or something like that, but the player killing himself loses control of the vehicle. That is, he can drop another one immediately. This is more realistic also. It doesn't sound realistic that when your gun doesn't work the commander decides to blow the vehicle up, himself with it.

[Moon]

Other things: If it would be possible to add a 3D internal schematics view mode to the final release, it would help really much when learning where the weak spots are.

I believe that there are some very useful schematics up on the DropTeam homepage on our site.

Martin

[CRourke]

Is over penetration of soft skinned vehicles with AP rounds modelled? I've been switching to HEAT for engaging palidins just assuming that it I should. Also, where should I employ HE?

[Drusus]

Yes, I checked them out. They are good, except that it is hard to see the z-axis placement of some of the components. It would be cool if they were 3D (or from two different viewpoints) so that you could see exactly where the components are.

[Grappler]

Originally posted by CRourke:

where should I employ HE?

I find HE very effective against turrets.

[ClaytoniousRex]

where should I employ HE?

It's good against buildings. For example, if you're attacking an objective that has an air defense tower on it, then hit the tower with HE rounds to destroy it (if you can't manage the better alternative, which is to have your team capture it with a Cutter EV).

Is over penetration of soft skinned vehicles with AP rounds modelled?

Overpenetration is not, but ricochets are. Overpenetration has been there in the past, so we might turn it back on again.

The vehicle is still there for 30s or something like that, but the player killing himself loses control of the vehicle.

This is a really nice idea. We'll see what we can do.

[Drusus]

It seems that I have been firing a bit high. That might be the reason for not scoring kills. But I still think that when you fire to the rear of any vehicle with anything, the results should be more fatal.

And more issues... The AI seems to be really good with ATGM. I am having no problem fighting against multiple Thors, but a single ATGM equipped vehicle ruins my day immediately. Example: I am inside the base with Apollo, this is on the ice fields map. The AI controlled Shrike does a pop shot from outside of the base. Ok, I saw him coming and fired a AP shell which did penetrate to no effect. He kills me of 3 seconds after coming in to my view. If he had a direct fire vehicle, I am 99% sure that he wouldn't have killed me, propably not even hit with the first shot. The other problem against ATGM equipped vehicles is that I can't seem to get first shot kills no more than 10% of time (this is with 120mm gun agains a soft skinned vehicle). So if my defence is to destroy him before I get killed, well, it is quite hard to do if he wont die.

Also, the game is very much playable on my work computer (yeah, I am working really hard here...) Except when there are many people on the server then the game becomes unplayable. So it is not about my graphics hardware, but something else (memory?). For this particular computer the texture caching must be on. Everything else ofcourse off. The connection is something like 2mbps line, so the problem is not there.

Specs: Celeron 2.53GHz, 512mb, Intel 865G graphics hardware, Windows XP. Intel PRO/100 VE network card.

[rune]

Drusus,

Easym get ateammate to get the aa vehicle and come with you, it shoots down the missiles.

Rune

[Drusus]

I was experimenting with the AA vehicle, it seems to be a key to many problems, especially when attacking...

[Bonxa]

The AA vehicle is key! It really gives you good overhead cover. Doesn't it include ECM as well? Another very powerful thing, to get rid of your little triangle.

[Drusus]

If you try to take an objective without an AA vehicle, while you might be able to take it, you can't hold the objective. Your enemy will drop new equipment right in the middle of the fighting faster than you can destroy them. And you are forced to drop your vehicles a long distance away. Result: you lose the objective. There should definitely be a short strategy guide to explain how to get the most out of your units (not what they do, but how to use them) and also one about the tactical display.

BTW it seems that the game is starting to gain popularity. I said that this game has potential. I was wrong. This game has HUGE potential. It would be really important to get people to play this game as more than FPS game. There is little coordination when playing on the servers now. Not that it isn't fun just to drive around and shoot things, but this game could be so much more. Usually there isn't anybody giving any commands, no talking, nothing.