Battlefield Communications US and German

[Louie the Toad]

I don't recall seeing this on the forum.

What type of communication would an infantry platoon leader have with a company commander, Company commander with Battalion HQ?

Was it a radio? A Walkie Talkie (not much use as I have heard (pun intended)) A runner? If a radio, how was it transported?

Platoon Leader's communication:

Company Commander communication:

USA:

Germany:

If you know, please let me know too... Toad

Thanks.

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by Louie the Toad:

I don't recall seeing this on the forum.

What type of communication would an infantry platoon leader have with a company commander, Company commander with Battalion HQ?

Was it a radio? A Walkie Talkie (not much use as I have heard (pun intended)) A runner? If a radio, how was it transported?

Platoon Leader's communication:

Company Commander communication:

USA:

Germany:

If you know, please let me know too... Toad

Thanks.

In the German Army, radios were seldom used below the company level. Subunits were tied in, where possible, by land line (field phone), or by runner. Companies may have had radios, though land lines were used in defensive positions.

You didn't ask about the CW, but the No. 38 set was used by some platoons, generally company headquarters had a No. 18 set to communicate with battalion. Land lines were also used as well as runners, much like the Germans; I think the difference was there were more radios available at the lower levels in the CW armies, at least in the last half of the war.

[Louie the Toad]

I am still curious about communication on the attack. Land lines obviously are out. So by what means would a platoon leader give info to and get orders from a Co Commander.

I could be assuming a much greater distance between platoon and CO HQ than was actually the case. How distant were platoons from Co HQ while on the attack.

All I can find in the basement is FM 22-5 .. Close Order Drill.

Parade Rest.... Toad

[YankeeDog]

I'm working off the top of my head here, rather than references, but here's what I remember:

By 1943, the US company level radio was the FM "Walkie Talkie" (SCR-300). Contrary to common belief, this was the backpack-type model everybody's seen in various pictures and movies. It is remarkable compared to comparable radios from other nationalities in that is was a FM set, rather than AM. This supposedly made it somewhat more reliable, especially in environments with a lot of radio 'clutter'. You can stil experience this difference between FM and AM today. AM radio reception on your car radio is much more likely to have problems with interference from power lines, etc. than FM reception is.

So theoretically, each Company had its own SCR-300 for communication with the rest of the battalion.

The US Army also had the BC-611 "Handie Talkie", which looks more like what we now think of as a "Walkie Talkie". It is unclear to me exactly how the "Handie Talkies" were distributed. Airborne made heavy use of them, but I have never seen anything indicating that BC-611s were ever distributed at the platoon level as standard practice. My own impression is that they were parceled out when and where needed to OP, Scout teams, etc. From what I have read, as long as the batteries were good, the BC-611 was reasonably reliable at short ranges (sub-600m), which would be fine for intra-company communications most of the time.

Note that the SCR-300 and the BC-611 cannot communicate with each other and the SCR-300 is FM and the BC-611 AM - the company commander would need his own BC-611 to communicate with any units with an AM transmitter.

My own impression is that communication within the Company on the attack was done as much as possible by runner and hand signal, but that BC-611s were used on occasion when and where necessary to improve communication in dense terrain or when more spread out. I have never heard of a Company using more than one SCR-300 for an intra-company communication net, but it might have happened in a special situation.

I have no conclusive evidence to prove this, though - just my impression based on what I've read from AARs and first person accounts.

Cheers,

YD

[JasonC]

The hand talkie was meant to let platoon talk to company. But vets say they rarely worked as advertised. The power was very low. If reliable communication was wanted to a platoon position or a forward OP, they laid lines and used sound powered phones. Then it was only reliable until a bombardment. In action at the company scale, it was runners. Tactical radios were for battalion level and up communications, in vehicles, or for FOs talking to the guns.

[Andreas]

Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:

In the German Army, radios were seldom used below the company level. Subunits were tied in, where possible, by land line (field phone), or by runner. Companies may have had radios, though land lines were used in defensive positions.

Michael

I am reasonably convinced that it was radios only on battalion level, and below all would be done by runner/landline. Can't give you any sources for that at the moment. Kip may have some info on this.

[Berlichtingen]

Originally posted by JasonC:

The hand talkie was meant to let platoon talk to company. But vets say they rarely worked as advertised. The power was very low. If reliable communication was wanted to a platoon position or a forward OP, they laid lines and used sound powered phones. Then it was only reliable until a bombardment. In action at the company scale, it was runners. Tactical radios were for battalion level and up communications, in vehicles, or for FOs talking to the guns.

First some background. My MOS in the Marines was 'Field Radio Operator', so I am well familiar with the differences between AM and FM.

The big difference between the two is FM is 'line of sight' communication. What that means is the radio wave travel from transmitter to reciever in a straight line basically. AM 'bounces off the sky'... literally the waves go up and bounce back, back up, back down, etc. A fairly low powered AM set can transmit over extreme ranges. We were able to make radio contact with HAM operators in Ohio from Kenya Africa with a backpack AM set... at the same time we couldn't talk to the Air Wing base 10 miles away. AM is suseptable to interference from atmosphere and weather.

FM (sort for 'f**ken magic') transmissions need power to 'bull' through interference... like hills, trees, the whim of God, etc. I've been in areas (bamboo groves come to mind) where I couldn't talk to a radio that was 10m away. Got a decent hill between you and the reciever and you can pretty much forget talking to them. FM signals do tend to be far cleaner than AM however, and are not nearly as suseptable to weather interference.

[Michael Emrys]

Originally posted by Louie the Toad:

I am still curious about communication on the attack. Land lines obviously are out.

Not necessarily. Wire would likely be run up to the line of departure and then advanced behind the troops as feasible. My guess is that that would only be for communication between company and battalion though.

Between company and platoon, comms were nearly always by runner unless circumstances precluded that. Flares (Very lights) were extensively used, but their meanings had to be pre-established and were limited. Whistles could be used, but I think those were mostly used within the platoon to control squads. Bugles (yes!) were still used in some armies. The Chinese were still using them in Korea. I suppose signal flags were possible, but I haven't heard much about them except their use by Soviet tankers before they got good radios in quantity.

Michael

[Louie the Toad]

This is good stuff.. Thanks.

Roger... Toad