I'd like to see this turn into a CMC operation...

[Sergei]

http://cc.joensuu.fi/~jarimi/cmc/Tali.htm

[PzKpfwIII]

I thought the Finns were not being included in CMC....

[Sergei]

Not for the initial release, but possibly (hopefully) as a patch/addon.

[Runyan99]

Are those 2x2km squares on your map? Map is good sized at 6x5 CMC tiles. What sort of forces would be involved on that map?

[Sergei]

Yep, 2x2 km^2 (the blue grid).

Historically, the forces involved within the area were 2-3 Finnish Divisions and about 3 Soviet Army Corps.

[Runyan99]

Ah well, that's a little big for a CMC game, isn't it?

[Sergei]

Maybe a little big, but not necessarily all too big... we'll see what sort of scaling down would be needed.

[Runyan99]

I think scaling down is a bad idea. How about cutting the map and overall op size by 1/2 to 1/3? Split it up into two or three smaller CMC ops with managable force sizes.

[Sergei]

Hard to say yet.

[Runyan99]

I think these design considerations are an interesting area for discussion at this point. I think it is going to be challenging to find situations which are both historical and playable from a CMC perspective. Mashing divisions together isn't going to be playable in CMBB, generally speaking. I think the best CMC ops will avoid these set piece battles.

[ November 22, 2005, 12:30 PM: Message edited by: Runyan99 ]

[Sergei]

I'm sure they'll be very playable... Then again, I'm not expecting company-sized engagements.

[Runyan99]

Originally posted by Sergei:

I'm sure they'll be very playable... Then again, I'm not expecting company-sized engagements.

But CM is still a company or battalion sized game.

I'm not sure who is attacking on your map, or in which direction, but placing 2 Finnish divisions on that map makes for division frontages of perhaps 4km.

With two up and one back, that is a regiment per 2x2 CMC tile.

[Sergei]

Originally posted by Runyan99:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Sergei:

I'm sure they'll be very playable... Then again, I'm not expecting company-sized engagements.

But CM is still a company or battalion sized game.</font>

[Runyan99]

Originally posted by Sergei:

I think it lends itself just perfectly to multiple Corps battles. And if you don't want to play it out, you can auto-resolve it.

I don't understand where you are coming from at all.

It might be possible to put multiple corps on a CMC map. That doesn't mean it is going to work well in CMBB terms. The CMBB battles you will generate will just have too many units to push around to be any fun. And, you'll probably have several regimental sized battles going on at once. This seems playable only in the context of the largest possible multiplayer team games.

And if you are using the auto-resolve feature, I think you're missing most of the point of CMC in the first place.

[Sergei]

Originally posted by Runyan99:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Sergei:

I think it lends itself just perfectly to multiple Corps battles. And if you don't want to play it out, you can auto-resolve it.

I don't understand where you are coming from at all.

It might be possible to put multiple corps on a CMC map. That doesn't mean it is going to work well in CMBB terms. The CMBB battles you will generate will just have too many units to push around to be any fun. And, you'll probably have several regimental sized battles going on at once. This seems playable only in the context of the largest possible multiplayer team games.

And if you are using the auto-resolve feature, I think you're missing most of the point of CMC in the first place. </font>

[Runyan99]

OK. I thought you'd gone insane.

[Sergei]

Too late for that.

[Runyan99]

Right.

Now Finnish maps are fine, but do you have any plans for Germans vs. Russians?

[Sergei]

I haven't given it so much thought yet. Researching German battles is quite difficult for me due to a lack of available literature and good maps.

[Ike]

Now, me, I would have said that I thought Sergei had come back from having gone insance.

[Ardem]

I think stacking of battle maps like 2-3 battalions and a tank battalion against one battalion would be cut short especially if artillery is implemented well. With all those forces a few barrages would knock out a lot of troops.

The reason why stacking would not work to well in CMC.

[Steiner14]

Great maps!

We see immediately how unrealistically usual CM-maps have been before CMC: in reality things are way "bigger". Fields and woods, while streets are much more sparse and important. Another very cool aspect, how CMC will expand the value of CM. Fantastic.

[Sailor Malan]

I haven't looked into eastern front battles, but I would hope Villiers Bocage, (full battle, not just Wittmann), or Arras would be the sort of size of encounter that could be done quite easily. I am sure there are many such encounters. Also, we could do them directly if CMC:CMBB is a success, and we get CMC2:CMAK

[savagegoose]

thats the prob with war games. in reality the forces mentioned have to cover the whole front, moving them all into "one stack" just isnt an option. if there was restrictions like..

ME1 has to stay within defined territoy limits, like its mission 1s to take destroyed rail bridge, ME2 is to take hights over looking high way, ME is to remain in reserve.

then the forces actually able to engage is 1/3 of total force.

sure there would still be a heck load of battles to fight out, prob need lots and lots of players.

could game engine handle like 12 players on 1 side? , just to go thru all the battles.

I imagine there'd be finnish volunteers to play all those battles tho.

im still worried about the forces involved but

MAN I LOVE THOSE MAPS!

also i guess if designer used reserves it also would drop number of units actually able to battle at one time.

[Bonxa]

I have played successfully with a regiment(+) attacking a battalion(+) on a 2x2 km map with lots of arty on both sides.