Ben Galanti Posted October 16, 2000 Share Posted October 16, 2000 I have a Revision A Beige G3 (only a 2 meg Rage II+) which I've upgraded to 400 MHz. I've been playing in software mode all this time, but would like to get a 3D card. My low cost options, as far as I can tell, are a Voodoo 3 or a Rage Orion. I know that baboon2 is improving the Voodoo3 support for CM, but will it ever match up to the Orion? The Voodoo 3 is cheaper, which is appealing... Another option is to wait until there are PCI Voodoo 4 or 5 cards or a PCI Radeon card, but I would suspect that these would be overkill in my system (especially on a 33 MHz PCI bus and 50 MHz system bus). Would it be worth my time to wait another month or two? Any advice on this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freak Posted October 17, 2000 Share Posted October 17, 2000 Hey Ben, I have a G3 rev a as well. I have thought about which card to go with for a long time. About a month ago I was going to get a voodoo 3 for around $50 after the rebate. But after reading about the voodoo 3 compatibility issues with CM, as well as the voodoo 3 card not being a "supported" card by 3dfx for mac, I have had my reservations about the voodoo 3. With that being said, I have leaned toward the Voodoo 4 or 5 card. I havent decided just yet, but I have decided to purchase a decent card for CM. The voodoo 5 pci card is out and from what I understand, CM really looks good when using it with the FSAA (anti aliasing). It has a hefty price tag, but it is a "supported" card and it will last a long time. The voodoo 4 is not out yet but should be any week now. It is just a step below the v5, and is priced much better. $120 on the PC side. I hope the v4 is priced the same as the PC version. If it is, then I will probably buy it. The plus side of buying a voodoo card is they support all 3 major 3D api"s; Rave, Opengl, and Glide. Basically that means the card will support all 3d games on the mac with the exception of "A Bugs Life" and some other Pangea made rave game. I dont know what CM looks like on a biege G3 with a 3d card though so maybe someone who has this experience can share. I am also of the same opinion that these new voodoo 4 and 5 cards are overkill for a G3 biege system. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baboon2 Posted October 17, 2000 Share Posted October 17, 2000 The Voodoo 3, 4 and 5 run Nanosaur, Nanosaur Extreme, and Bugdom (Pangea games) very well. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Peace Posted October 17, 2000 Share Posted October 17, 2000 I've got a beige G3 with a Rage Orion Card (<$100 from macmall). CM looks great and runs great. No problems of any kind. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Galanti Posted October 17, 2000 Author Share Posted October 17, 2000 Freak, It sounds like you've eben going through the exact same thought process I have. I've been tempted by the low Voodoo 3 prices, but am a little wary of it. The games I am interested in are CM and Skyfighters 1945, both RAVE games (though I think Skyfighters is OpenGL now also...) I know Baboon2 is working to make the Voodoo 3 look as good as possible with CM, but I thought I saw a post where he said it might never match up to the Rage128 due to RAVE issues. The Voodoo 5 is a bit out of my price range, but I knew the Voodoo 4 was cheaper, so I was somewhat waiting to see how that card panned out. I'd probably lean towards the Rage128, but I just can't fathom the fact that they are still selling for $100. They've been out for ever, without much of a price drop. I suspected that their price will drop when PCI Radeon cards appear, but who knows when that will be... Also, I'm not going to pay $100 for a year old card if the Voodoo 4 will be in that price range soon. But, if the Voodoo 4 is just sitting there waiting for data from the CPU or the bus, then it's a waste of money. Does the Voodoo 4 have the hardware anti-aliasing? If so, the card could be anti-aliasing while it waited for data, so you'd almost get the AA for free... I appreciate the responses so far, and would still love to hear any other opinions on this. Thanks! Ben 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freak Posted October 17, 2000 Share Posted October 17, 2000 Hey Ben again, Yep, I noticed that as well. I've been thinking or overthinking this 3d card situation for a long time. Its one of the hardest decisions for me too make when it comes to computer related stuff. Like you said, the rage orion (128) has been out for almost forever at this point. $100 bucks is alot for that card. I dont doubt that it is a good card though. 16mb of ram is pretty good. I just dont know if I want to get a an Ati card. Even though they seem to have gotten the kinks out of thier cards at this point. For a while though it seemed there was nothing good to say about them. I think though, that I might splurg abit here and go for the Voodoo 5. I know its pricey and my wallet really doesnt want to take this hit, but I am trying to look at it as a worthy and long term invesment. Today (this morning) I was playing CM and I was looking at a Sherman or a Panzer IV, I cant remember which, but I looked at the bueaty of it and thought "how much better this will look on a voodoo 5". I kept looking at the jagged edges, and kept think that with the V5 that will be smooth. (gee I sound like a 3dfx pitch man : ) But seriously, the voodoo 5 must look pretty good. I remember Baboon2 replying to a post of mine saying that the Voodoo 5 looks better in CM then the rage 128 or readen. If that is so definetly most likely get the voodoo 4 or 5. I basically want a card that is gonna make CM shine. Baboon, do you think you can testify how the Voodoo 5 looks with CM? I mean I just want to know does it look better then what the readen has to offer? I realize I am being almost obsesive on this 3d card thing, but for me to spend $250-$300 on a video card, I need to know how good it is. And how it will work with what I want to use it with. Its a big investment. Thanks again. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Galanti Posted October 17, 2000 Author Share Posted October 17, 2000 Wow... I'm glad I'm not the only one who is obsessive about such things I've been pondering on this since CM came out (even before that, actually...) My only hesitation on dropping $250+ on a video card now is, that, down the road, whenever I get a new system, it'll come with an up to date card, and the $250 card will just be a spare. Granted, if a Voodoo 5 can let me stretch this system out another year or two (I'm obviously not concerned with being on the cutting edge) then it might be a good investment... I just have a real hard time justifying dropping that big of a chunk a change for gaming I had the same concerns with the ATI drivers, but they seem to have been ironed out recently. It's just that $100 is really more then that card is worth these days. Ben 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim Posted October 24, 2000 Share Posted October 24, 2000 Guys, I hate to be the wet blanket, but isn't a V5 or Radeon crazy overkill for your processor speed? I have a G3 300 and it can't even fill my V3, let alone a V5 or Radeon. I want FSAA as well, but you have to realise that you're paying the big bucks for a card that will only be able to give you those pretty pictures when the processor is good and ready. To be honest I don't think you'll get good performance on big maps from a G3 400 even with a V5 or Radeon (please contradict me, anyone who's tried it). I don't think the Rage 128 is good value for money (it's too expensive to throw away next year), so I'd recommend a V3 along with bribes to Baboon2 to get the RAVE drivers out early 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baboon2 Posted October 24, 2000 Share Posted October 24, 2000 OK, it now looks like the 1.1.1 3dfx drivers will have complete support for the V4 & V5. The only minor bug left is the appearance of skinny font characters, and they don't look that bad. BTW, the V4 can do 2x FSAA. The Radeon drivers do not yet implement the FSAA that the chip is capable of, so right now, CM looks best on Voodoo 5, and soon, Voodoo 4. You can get a $50 rebate on Voodoo now thru the end of Oct. at www.dailyradar.com. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freak Posted October 25, 2000 Share Posted October 25, 2000 Yep you are right about the V4 and 5 being overkill. But I am looking for the best possible card I guess. I do have reservations about spending that much money on the newer cards though, so i dont know. I was going to get a V3 but I heard that there are lots of issues with the V3 and CM. Fee free to correct me however. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim Posted October 27, 2000 Share Posted October 27, 2000 As far as I know there are not lots of issues with the V3 and CM on Macs. It just doesn't work To be accurate, there are no Mac RAVE drivers for the V3 (and the V5 ones won't drive CM on a V3 to the best of my knowledge). But do not despair! Our simian friend has promised us Mac V3 RAVE drivers in "a few weeks" and that was a few weeks ago, so it must be any day now All the issues you've seen on this forum with the V3 have been Wintel ones, and appear to be driver specific. Consequently there is no reason to think Baboon2 won't give us Mac users beautiful CM friendly performance on our treasured (and very cheap) V3s. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rum Posted October 27, 2000 Share Posted October 27, 2000 As I was using beige G3 with Voodoo 3/2000 PCI, I was unable to make it run CM, at least CM Demo, in 3D. So Radeon seems more attractive choice. Guys, if you wanna a _real_ overkill, check for new Formac Proformance 4 card http://www.shipitforyou.com/formac/newindex.html I wish it cost would be $500 lower then now 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Galanti Posted October 30, 2000 Author Share Posted October 30, 2000 Grim, I was thinking the same thing about the the processor not being able to keep up with the card. I thought the thing was with the Voodoo 4 and 5 Hardware FSAA, the card didn't need extra info to do it. So, while the video card is waiting for more data, it can spend it's time calculating the AA. So, you're not going to get a monster frame rate, but you will also not see much of a hit from turning on the AA (since the it's the CPU that's limiting, not the card). So, you're kind of getting the AA for 'free'. Is this not the case? If a Voodoo4 is going to be about the same price range of the Rage128, I think I'm going to wait for that. Though, if the Rage128's have a drastic price cut due to the Radeons, than I might go with that. It's tough living on the trailing edge of technology Ben 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baboon2 Posted November 1, 2000 Share Posted November 1, 2000 Yes, FSAA adds a lot to Combat Mission, and it puts no load on the CPU. The Voodoo4 is now shipping. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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