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PBEM: Yes or No?


Sanok

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For the 1000th time [Not aimed at you Sanok or Ruddy who snuck in before this posted], we are not promising something till we know 100% for sure, but at this point in time, it looks like it will make it in. The reason we said it MIGHT not be in, is it if breaks something in the game. We won't know that till coding is more advanced. Steve did NOT want to promise something till he knew for sure. I guess some people would have preferred saying it was in then just not having it if it did break something. However, isn't it better to be honest and upfront about it?

Rune

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The problem is that the more accurate the map (individually modelled bullet holes in walls etc.) and modifiers for each unit in a battle (full psychological modelling of every soldier, including their childhood traumas, and such), the bigger the filesize, and if a movie file becomes 50 MB in size, it is impractical.

But whether it comes to that, they'll only know once they have gone further in the coding. If it should become a choice between PBEM playability and other features, PBEM loses, said Steve, but he was wishful that it didn't come to that.

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Originally posted by rune:

For the 1000th time [Not aimed at you Sanok or Ruddy who snuck in before this posted], we are not promising something till we know 100% for sure, but at this point in time, it looks like it will make it in. The reason we said it MIGHT not be in, is it if breaks something in the game. We won't know that till coding is more advanced. Steve did NOT want to promise something till he knew for sure. I guess some people would have preferred saying it was in then just not having it if it did break something. However, isn't it better to be honest and upfront about it?

Rune

I knew pbem was still up in the air, but since the game had been officially announced and more coding had been done, I wondered if there had been an official answer.
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Originally posted by Sergei:

The problem is that the more accurate the map (individually modelled bullet holes in walls etc.) and modifiers for each unit in a battle (full psychological modelling of every soldier, including their childhood traumas, and such), the bigger the filesize, and if a movie file becomes 50 MB in size, it is impractical.

But whether it comes to that, they'll only know once they have gone further in the coding. If it should become a choice between PBEM playability and other features, PBEM loses, said Steve, but he was wishful that it didn't come to that.

Very generally speaking, and this depends on how it is being coded, all that needs to be passed around are the actions taken (give unit X command Y), the variable changes (e.g. new wind direction), and the seeds for the random numbers. Then the rest of the calculations should come out the same even if run independently on the other player's machine.

The map, models, unit psychological history, etc. should already exist on both player's machine as part of the game install.

So, instead of passing along the turn (replay and all), you just pass along the parameters to generate the turn again on the other player's achine.

Again, this is overly-simplistic, but in theory that's how it could work.

As an aside, I'm one of those who think PBEM would be a nice feature to have, but would probably never use it. The majority of my time will probably be spent playing the solo campaign and after that solo QBs.

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It is also my understanding that although there is a question whether PBEM is in but playing TCP/IP is in.

From my perspective (and I understand the file size issue) not having PBEM will be a big minus for me and unless the game is very compelling on a stand alone basis that includes a dramatically improved AI I probably will not buy it.

First, I find that I really like the challenge of playing another human (or space lobster). I find the play is more challenging and the game experience more rewarding.

Secondly, my life is not flexible enough to be able to sit down and play a even a small scenario by linking computers. CMx1 is really very time management friendly as I can download the latest turn, watch the turn for a minute or two (including replays), make a couple of order changes and send the file back. From start to finish it is really quick maybe just 5 minutes. Having to set asides hours at a time too potentially to play a scenario from start to finish (or even a couple of turns) is just not a luxury I have.

Regards,

v. Nev

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Originally posted by Josh Coady:

Very generally speaking, and this depends on how it is being coded, all that needs to be passed around are the actions taken (give unit X command Y), the variable changes (e.g. new wind direction), and the seeds for the random numbers. Then the rest of the calculations should come out the same even if run independently on the other player's machine.

[/QB]

It was what they believed, but even before CMx1, they were proved wrong during beta test.

The game is for Mac and PC (different floating point libraries, a rounding error in floating point means a live or dead tank :( ) and even between various PCs the results where not the same (maybe this was at the time of the various Pentium floating point bugs).

So each CMx1 movie file includes all the computations which are done on only one computer.

I guess it will be the same for CMSF, or they would not worry about file size.

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Originally posted by Folbec:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Josh Coady:

Very generally speaking, and this depends on how it is being coded, all that needs to be passed around are the actions taken (give unit X command Y), the variable changes (e.g. new wind direction), and the seeds for the random numbers. Then the rest of the calculations should come out the same even if run independently on the other player's machine.

It was what they believed, but even before CMx1, they were proved wrong during beta test.

The game is for Mac and PC (different floating point libraries, a rounding error in floating point means a live or dead tank :( ) and even between various PCs the results where not the same (maybe this was at the time of the various Pentium floating point bugs).

So each CMx1 movie file includes all the computations which are done on only one computer.

I guess it will be the same for CMSF, or they would not worry about file size. [/QB]</font>

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