cassh Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 Anyone here used the Israeli TAR-21 assault rifle? Would love to hear your opinion of it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 cassh, Haven't seen or handled one personally, but the segment on it on Future Weapons was pretty impressive. The ex-SEAL host was getting head hits from 300 meters while standing and really liked the design. Speaking of IDF weapons, one of these days I need to go back and look into the factors that went into the to me at least surprising switch from the Galil to the M-16. Years ago, I was so impressed with the rugged no nonsense design of the Galil I almost bought the semiautomatic version. Will also admit drooling over the modular Steyr assault rifle. Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudel.dietrich Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 Will also admit drooling over the modular Steyr assault rifle. [/QB]One of the most uncomfortable and fragile weapons I have ever had the displeasure of using. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 rudel.dietrich, A cool looking dog of a weapon, eh? Makes me feel better that I couldn't afford it! Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cassh Posted August 19, 2006 Author Share Posted August 19, 2006 SA-80 is also accurate - but fails in robustness, CQB/MOUT handling, reliability and weight. Just wondered if the Tavor had overcome these shortcomings? The Galil was a/is great weapon as it is pretty much a 7.62mm Nato AKM/AK-47 but I think it was a tad heavy which given the number of female IDF soldiers was an issue for unrested standing, kneeling and sitting shoots - hence the lighter M-16 was adopted. IDF cite M-16 shortcomings as stoppages / reliability and weapon length in MOUT. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudel.dietrich Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 Originally posted by John Kettler: rudel.dietrich, A cool looking dog of a weapon, eh? Makes me feel better that I couldn't afford it! Regards, John Kettler We had a small group come in from Austria for cross training and we fought over who got to fire them Augs first. My god they were horrible. I found it very hard to sight the weapon since it is very long and very unbalenced. I was constatly having to press it into my shoulder as hard as I could and thus each shot was shattering bone it felt like! As I said, I found it very unbalenced as the stock is large and the magazine sits in the rear of the weapon. The handgrip up front is very flimsy amd the weapon overall felt 'over produced' and fragile. I did not like it at all. I was very dissapointed since they have an excellent reputation for their fine pistols and superb rifles. I would take my G-36 over it any day of the week. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oren_m Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 Originally posted by cassh: The Galil was a/is great weapon as it is pretty much a 7.62mm Nato AKM/AK-47 but I think it was a tad heavy which given the number of female IDF soldiers was an issue for unrested standing, kneeling and sitting shoots - hence the lighter M-16 was adopted. IDF cite M-16 shortcomings as stoppages / reliability and weapon length in MOUT. The Galil is a 5.56. During my military service i had a Galil SAR, which is a very very good weapon, before you jump into the tank you throw the Galil first and than you jump in, the Galil is so tough that it actually can band stuff in the tank. Despit it's heavyness, i really like the Galil, it's far more useful than the M-16, during my 3 years service i had only 1 jam. There a popular story among IDF tankers about a loader who forgot it's Galil on a turret of a tank in an outpost on the Hermon mountain in a very snowy day, after he dug the Galil out he went to the shooting range and simlpy fired the Galil. Oren_m 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cassh Posted August 20, 2006 Author Share Posted August 20, 2006 Quite so; 5.56mm NATO. Don't know why I had it in my head it is 7.62mm. It's definately a soldiers weapon though. oren_m - have you come across the Tavor yet? Just really wanted some inside knowledge of what it was like to use and shoot? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oren_m Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 No, sorry, i'm in reserves now, so i guess i'll get Galil for the rest of my life. Oren_m 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khane Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 Like Oren I had a very good experience with the Galil. Never had a jam and it went on working perfectly well even after being into sand or mud. I already was a reservist when the first Galil appeared; I was the RPG guy of my platoon and before the Galil my automatic rifle was a M-16 , the original one. Because of its length, going around with it (specially running) while the RPG on my back was a bit uncomfortable. I was very pleased when the Galil replaced my M-16 because in spite that it was heavier than the M-16 it was shorter, specially once the stock was fold and so easier to handle. Later the short version of the M-16 replaced the Galil and it was ideal: short , light and almost as reliable as the Galil. Apart on photos I never saw the Tavor. Khane [ August 20, 2006, 10:13 AM: Message edited by: Khane ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khane Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 Originally posted by oren_m: i'm in reserves now, so i guess i'll get Galil for the rest of my life.It seems that you are a new reservist so maybe you'll get the Tavor someday; I upgraded from M-16 to Galil when I was already a reservist and even later from Galil to the short M-16. Khane 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oren_m Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 Yes, i am a new resevist, but did you know that the regular Tanker gets now the short M-16? It's so wired to see tanker go with M-16's. I dont think we'll ever get the Tavor, it's like when i was in the amry they commander always told us thea "soon" we will get the Galil MAR... Oren_m 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khane Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 Originally posted by oren_m: did you know that the regular Tanker gets now the short M-16?I did not know; these are good news for them. Ahla tshupar :cool: Khane 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSX Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 I think you will find the SA80 A2 version is a much improved and reliable weapon since H & K revamped it. And since the British Army prides itself on marksmanship, I can testify that its very accurrate. Last I read, the TAR might never reach service. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cassh Posted August 20, 2006 Author Share Posted August 20, 2006 I thought the TAR was already deployed with a brigade or two? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khane Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 Originally posted by cassh: I thought the TAR was already deployed with a brigade or two? Originally posted by GSX: Last I read, the TAR might never reach service. Tavor guide Tavor status Khane 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Ruddy Posted August 21, 2006 Share Posted August 21, 2006 ____\_ |____/ I have no experience with any israeli weaponry, but I do have experience with 5.56 & 7.62 Nato as well as a number of hunting rounds. 5.56 is a joy to shoot and carry. I wouldn't trust it to drop anything larger than a Coyote with one shot. 7.62 packs a bit of a kick and is pretty damned heavy when you're hauling around 60-80 rounds. I wouldn't trust it to drop anything larger than a Cow Moose. I think you see where I'm going here... We went from overkill to underkill... Someone bright figured out that the ideal round for human sized targets would be something along the lines of a .243 remington. The problem is that it isn't a great round for military use because it is simply a necked down .308 Winchester that weighs too much and doesn't autofeed very well. But this 6.8x43mm Remington SPC cartridge looks great on paper. 115 grains of terminal ouchness and a trajectory that is similar to 7.62 NATO. So why the hell are we (NATO) still using 5.56? (with some exceptions of course...*cough* *SOCOM* *cough*) Even worse, all talks of replacing 5.56 as the NATO standard seem to have quieted down lately. Why did the US adopt a varment round in '63 anyways? (I wonder who pocketed that bribe?) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.