Even more questions on what a module is ;).

[kipanderson]

Hi,

Just to be clear, so those who are a bit slow like myself can know what we are able to look forward to .

Ok… even I understand that a module might be a move from a US based Normandy game to Arnhem by adding Commonwealth Forces and changing 10% odd of the terrain tiles. Doable by a dedicated team of semi-professionals over six odd months. Maybe in the style in which the John Tiller games are produced.

However, my question is would a change to another season, requiring an entire change to the terrain still count as a module? i.e. From a Normandy game to the Ardennes? Or would this require another new “game” nine months later.

I am sure I speak for many in saying that Normandy and the Ardennes are my two favourite settings for NWE, am very keen to see both appear over the coming eighteen months. Is this possible? But no promises of course.

Added to the above is the even more important question of the Eastern Front .

For me wargaming/military history really are about the Eastern Front, with everything else coming second. I know, I am not sane . Anyway… when attention does turn to the Eastern Front I am hugely keen to see both summer and winter warfare covered. Without making any promises, is this likely, is it on the list? If you start with a summer “game” will there be a module set at some other time of year? Or would it be too much work.

None of the above is an attack on the greater depth/module system. I am a fan of it. But for any given front, the different seasons add a lot to the fun. Modules set at different times of year would be great. But I realise it may require too much work to come under the definition of modules. No problem. I still remain a fan of modules as they add to the excitement.

All good fun,

All the best,

Kip.

[Gpig]

Hi Kip.

This was posted by steve yesterday (?) in this forum (somewhere).

Well, I've actually been quite clear and specific about what is a Title and what is a Module, but for those that missed it...

A Title is a major shift in subject matter. The degree of shift depends on the conflict. WWII ETO would basically be broken up into Fronts. Meaning, one Title for Western Europe 1944-1945, one Title for Italy, another for France and the Low Countries in 1940, and yet another for something like the Balkans and Greece 1941-1945. The Eastern Front would likely be a single Title as well.

However, the subject matter covered by the Title itself would be fairly narrow for any of these fronts. For example, the Eastern Front Title might only contain combat centering in one particular area for a particular region and slice of time (say Kursk or Stalingrad or AG Center in Bagration, etc.) between German and Soviet forces. The Western Europe 1944-1945 title might just be US forces in Normandy June-August 1944. Etc.

The reasoning is that terrain, weather, TO&E, models, textures, and the mechanics of warfare (C&C, weapons technology, etc) need to be logically grouped if we are to avoid being bogged down like we were with CMx1 development. Concentrate on one fairly specific topic, simulate it very well, then release it. Depth vs. Breadth. That's our new concept.

For Breadth we have Modules. These allow us to expand upon the setting already established in the Title. For example, doing up the battle of Arnhem as a Module for the WWII Western Europe Title or the battles of Army Group South in the 1941 offensive for the the Eastern Front Title. That sort of thing.

Modules will not deviate significantly from the timeframe and theater of the main Title. To do so would mean having to redo the aspects that give the game Depth, and that means investing as much time as it would be to create a Title. And that means it isn't a Module any more but instead a Title.

What that means is that there will be no 1973 conflict Module for CM:SF. The only thing similar between that setting and CM:SF is some of the Soviet hardware and the terrain. Otherwise, everything else is different. Absolutely not Module material. It is unlikely we will ever do it as a Title either since we have many other things that are on our list that would appeal to the greater wargaming audience and to ourselves as well.

So what kinds of Modules would be applicable to CM:SF? Adding NATO forces and the US Marines to the same exact setting is what we're planning on doing. Which ones and who goes first? We've yet to decide. The NATO forces will not be done all in one Module, that is for sure. What we probably will do is release them grouped by equipment. For example, the Dutch and Danes use a mix of US and German equipment for the most part. If we added the Bundeswehr we could get the Danes and Dutch in with little difficulty since most of their needs would already be met (US stuff in the Title release, German stuff along with the Bundeswehr). But adding the Bundeswehr and the British in one Module is not likely since they both have totally different equipment. But again, it all comes down to how much work it would take for us to put this stuff in.

Think of it this way... we are planning on a Module taking a couple of months of intensive work by at least 3-4 people. If we think we can put in x, y, and z in within those parameters, we will. If we think we can only handle x or a combo y and z, then we will choose which is likely to be the most popular and put out either x *or* y/z. Then for another Module we can do whatever we didn't do for the previous one.

Hopefully this furthers everybody's understanding of what our new strategy is like!

Steve

[Runyan99]

Given the very narrow scope and timeframe (weeks?) that CM:SF represents, my guess at this point is that a change in weather from summer to winter would probably require a new module.

For example, 'Combat Mission:Into Stalingrad' might get a 'Rattenkrieg' module which adds winter terrain and say, the Romanians.

[ October 19, 2005, 11:42 AM: Message edited by: Runyan99 ]

[Battlefront.com]

my guess at this point is that a change in weather from summer to winter would probably require a new module.

Most likely. It doubles our artwork requirements and does increase some 3D modeling demands. Unlike CMx1 where the soldier models were the same for summer and winter, we need to now make separate models for the seasons because the uniforms (usually) differ substantially. It also requires some additional programmed features and would increase testing needs significantly.

Steve

[Battlefront.com]

And to answer Kip's specific question:

However, my question is would a change to another season, requiring an entire change to the terrain still count as a module? From a Normandy game to the Ardennes?

Remember, there is a lot of differences between Normandy and Ardennes that have nothing to do with the weather. The Germans were using entirely differently organized formations in some cases, the vehicles had changed substantially (in capabilities and mix of types), and of course the winter uniforms mean the soldiers need to be changed too. The Allied side is no better

As I said in my above reposted post, we are talking about an entirely different type of wargame than CMx1, which itself was an entirely different wargame from everything else. We can't just recolor some chits and change a 4 to a 3 to simulate some major thing like firepower. We must simulate these things in detail, so the more things that differ the more difficult and time consuming it will be.

Going from Normandy to Ardennes isn't like going from Normandy to Stalingrad, but it is no small thing to do. Normandy and Stalingrad would have to be parts of two different Titles. Normandy and Ardennes would have to be part of two different Modules within a common TItle (think of the subject matter with the Title as being equal to a Module).

Steve

[kipanderson]

Hi,

Steve posted,

“Normandy and Ardennes would have to be part of two different Modules within a common Title” great .

In my original post I now realize I was using the wrong jargon, and jargon matters . My fear was that a move from Normandy to Ardennes would most likely mean two different “Titles”. If such a move can be done within a single Title by the use of a new module then I am a very happy chap. If you follow my rantings.

The implication is that we are in with a very good chance of seeing both Normandy and the Ardennes over the next eighteen months or so. But no guarantees…. of course .

Also, when the time comes for the Eastern Front we are in with a very good chance of seeing both summer and winter modules. Great .

Thanks,

All the best,

Kip.

[GSX]

OK, I think I get the gist.

Similar terrain that requires no modification could be allocated a module.

So if game 1 is US Normandy June-Aug 44, the module may be UK Normandy, same dates.

If it requires a major re-hash of the terrain, like the Ardennes, then this will be a separate game and so we may have, German Ardennes offensive Dec-Jan 44/45, with a module for a US counter-offensive.

So each seperate iteration would be about 2-8 weeks in length, with supporting modules then?

[Battlefront.com]

GSX,

Similar terrain that requires no modification could be allocated a module.

So if game 1 is US Normandy June-Aug 44, the module may be UK Normandy, same dates.

Correct.

If it requires a major re-hash of the terrain, like the Ardennes, then this will be a separate game and so we may have, German Ardennes offensive Dec-Jan 44/45, with a module for a US counter-offensive.

Correct. However, it is more to do with the units than with the terrain. In this example, if the Allies and Germans used the same exact stuff in the winter as they did in the summer then it would probably be a Module. But obviously that is very much the opposite of reality

So each seperate iteration would be about 2-8 weeks in length, with supporting modules then?

The timeframe for a Module's setting would really depend on what the setting is. Probably a month or two, could be more and probably not less. For example, a campaign that was fought on pretty much the same type of terrain with the same forces for several months, could span many months. For example, let us say we wanted to do Stalingrad. We'd need both summer and winter graphics and effects, but the units are pretty much the same even though the battle lasted for many months.

Steve