Campagin game I want

[bwgulley]

I want the Squad Leader campaign game. "You" start off as a corporal or sgt at the start of the campaign and based on how well you do during each scenario you can earn better skills and promotions. Yes I realize the scope of CMSF is way to short for that to happein in RL. This is a game and the purpose of a game is to have fun. Since most people play solo what could be better than watching "yourself" on the battlefield. As I recall the SL campaign was only 6 scenarios, of course the player could make it as long as they wanted. A 2 player version would have both players start off at the bottom working their way up. If one guys is killed then his replacement starts off at the bottom again. The winner would have the highest rank or skill at the end of a set number of scenarios. Sounds like fun to me.

[hellfish]

I like the idea of that, but at the kind of micro level we're talking about, I'd argue more than just battlefield experience in large battles should count.

I mean, it's one thing to get a promotion because you took out a machinegun nest or something, but it's another thing entirely to actually lead your troops. And frankly, that's something I'd want modeled, even if it was just filler between the battles.

For example, you're given a "Private X keeps losing his gear, do you A) beat him, sarcastically inform him that he needs to stop losing his stuff, C) help him look for it or D) show him how to secure his gear with 550 cord". The effects of your actions should have an effect in the next battle. If you beat Private X, his morale is gonna be crappy. If you help him, he might never improve. If you show him how to secure his stuff, he'll be ok.

Besides that, little things like how you divide your time between the battle - rest, maintenance, rehearsal, patrols, etc. should all have an impact. If you spend most of your time sleeping, you'll have good morale and well rested soldiers, but if their weapons aren't clean or they haven't rehearsed their roles on the battlefield, they could be less effective.

Stuff like that would matter at this level, I'd think. I've never played SL or ASL, but this is what I'd expect in a game like that.

[bwgulley]

You can lead you troops by gaining leadership ability. Think CMx1, you gain combat skills, morale building, command skills, stealth skills. Once you max these skill at you current rank you promote to the next rank and start all over. I'm already burnt out on playing the AI with CMx2, unless future patches include a killer AI the game is in bad shape unless they come up with something to keep people playing. I like other others only play CMx1 PBEM because the AI isn't much of a challange. With 120 turn per scenario PBEM isn't an option with CMx2. Do you see where I'm going with this? CMx2 East Front begs for this type of game, IMHO.

[Pandur]

honestly said, i like RPG´s for PC or some kind of usefull RPG elements, but i hate the current trend to stuff RPG elements into everything.

the day i can fire up CMSF and go XPing and start to farm medals or batches im done here

[bwgulley]

Then don't that type of campaign then! I'm would make it an option. If you want to play the game as is then press on. I don't want medals either just something to maintain instrest. As you said "I'm done here" unless the AI gets better or PBEM becomes an option. Many times I've fired up the game only to turn it off before playing a turn. The reason is I've played all the battles and campaigns several times. Since QB's aren't up to speed yet what is there to hold my instrest. I played the old East Front campaign game for years after burning out on playing scenarios again it maintained instrest, sorry for rambling on.

[Pandur]

maybe i was to harsh to your idea. there are a few ways i can see this to be included, but just verry verry minor in the background, well not so important for me.

...unless the AI gets better or PBEM becomes an option.

for me it would be tcp/ip WeGo

Many times I've fired up the game only to turn it off before playing a turn.

me too, but i still do that with CMx1 games also.

to play a game of CM you need to be in a special mood in my view. if you dont have the right mood you will turn it off again.

i sometimes just do the setup and safe to start again with the saved setup a few houers later.

what is there to hold my instrest.

now we come to the point, in my thinking its better to build on the strenth´s of the CMx1 games wich kept people entertained instead of adding "new" stuff wich does not belong to CM to keep people entertained.

CMx2 so far, clearly misses some features of CMx1 wich would add to its long therm entertainment factor. for me that would be;

-i cant really play sandbox in that game as you cant "cherrypick" stuff in QB´s.

-diversity of units, vehicles, equipment.

- AI, somehow you "could" say the game does not have any "highest" level AI. there is TacAI, thank god for that, but if you dont give them instructions they dont to a thing, so after all they just follow your points you gave them.

but what i understand as AI, is something wich could on top of that do something on its own(like the CMx1 AI moving towards the flags by themselfs, primitive but still).

although it was said that the CMx2 AI is more complex wich i totaly belive, the complexity does add noting to their behaviour in battle.

they are like cattle herd.

it wouldnt be so bad if i could play tcpip wego but there isnt and so i cant.

anyways, i also read steves post where he said that AI programming is the worst thing to do, so i can understand that there isnt much time spent in that region, but right now, if you dont tell em where to go they stand around eating weeds, like cattle. so i go as far as to say there is no AI on the big level if the scenario designer doesnt add one!? i didnt saw the enemy doing something without a human telling em what to do in the first place(wich could work out, with much more trigger options than "time").

ok, nothing to do about it right now, but for me that are the things that could be revisited a bit in order to up CMx2´s long therm entertainment.

[ February 02, 2008, 01:59 PM: Message edited by: Pandur ]

[vincere]

Pandur, I thought it was just me who oaded up and wanted to play but just shut down again. You're spot on, I need to be in a certain zone to get the most from playing it. I guess part of that is that it exercises my limited grey matter.

[Pandur]

i guess nearly every CM player has it in some form or another. its simply no game you hop into and play away and march towards victory.

if it would, we all wouldnt be here, it takes commitment, thats why it can be one of the most "rewarding" games out there if things work out(CMx1 as 2).

[Paper Tiger]

Hmm, if I were looking for a SL campaign experience, I'd rather go with the SASL system. You have your company and you shepherd it through a number of scenarios. Units die and sometimes get replaced, some units improve in quality/experience, especially if you win, while other degrade if you lose. I used to love following the progress of my Russian 1941 infantry company and see how long I could keep a working company together. I kept a spreadsheet with all the unit stats which was updated after each situation. I once got one through to about Feb 1942. I got through a LOT of replacements but had great fun doing it.

[bwgulley]

We're going to get Marines followed by Euro troops against Sryians. More of the same ambush scenarios. Only this time we'll have different toys but the scenarios will be the same. Sure the game is realistic but so what, again how many scenarios do you want to play where the cavalry rides to the rescue. By now everyone know how to isloate and over come with firepower. The only fun for me is taking a few loses as possible, fun!

[Pandur]

More of the same ambush scenarios.

mind you, ambushes arent realy as they should be up to this point.

one would need different cover arcs(at least armor and soft), and the troops need to be able hide to not get spotted from far away while still reacting to things in their cover arc. currently you can drive vehicle after vehicle through their cover arc and they let them pass, doing nothing.

thats a minor thing wich is in place since half a year and i hope its corrected in 1.07 becouse its said to be a collective "little issues" patch.

thanks