Horncastle Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 I had a game the other day where a supposed Stu42 was advancing, opened up with two 6pdrs but it turned out to be a hetzer at about 350meters. They got through their Tungsten quickly without even hitting, why waste special ammo when you havent actually found your range? Also tungsten agasint a 60degree slope is pretty ineffective so could you argue they should have not used it once realising it was a hetzer? What was SOP for anti tank guns in wwii for both allies and axis when presented with a target? Unlike a tank they didnt have a HMG to work out range did they? Would they open up at longer distance to prevent spotting but have the disadvantage of accuracy and penetration? Or would it be recommended to open up at definite killing range but run the risk of being spotted and blasted before finding the mark? Were the any particular orders in the use of tungsten due to its lack of availability amongst allied crews? Cheers 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingknives Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 Ranging MGs were only introduced post-WWII (the Centurion is the only one that used one that I can recall) IIRC, the game engine is set so that a gun will only use T ammo if normal AP has been tried and found ineffective. Odd things do happen though. From what I've read, well trained gunners wait until the target is within effective range before opening fire, but don't regard that as definitive, as it's just an impression from a few sources. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horncastle Posted October 6, 2003 Author Share Posted October 6, 2003 I thought the coaxil MG on all tanks was used to help work out range? Whats it purpose? [ October 06, 2003, 10:21 AM: Message edited by: Horncastle ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joachim Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 Originally posted by Horncastle: I thought the coaxil MG on all tanks was used to help work out range? Whats it purpose? Killing? Gruß Joachim 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingknives Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 I thought the coaxil MG on all tanks was used to help work out range? Whats it purpose? In order to range the main gun, the rounds fired by the ranging gun must be ballistically matched to the trajectory of the main gun. The smaller bullets of the rifle calibre co-axial mounts can't do this. The Ranging MG on the Centurion is .50cal MG, matched to the main gun. In addition, it also mounts a 7.62mm co-axial MG. The co-axial MG is an alternate weapon for dealing with infantry, especially when they are in light cover or in the open. By contrast, bow and turret rear MGs are for self-defense (shorter effective range due to how they are mounted and the sights used) while flexible MGs are mainly intended for AA use. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horncastle Posted October 8, 2003 Author Share Posted October 8, 2003 Originally posted by Scarhead: Killing? Gruß Joachim I cant see for instance a Tigers coaxil being desgined for anti inf purposes, surely the turret would be too slow to make it of any use. Plus I didnt think a coaxil had such a range of movement as bow for this purpose either? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 Originally posted by Horncastle: I cant see for instance a Tigers coaxil being desgined for anti inf purposes, surely the turret would be too slow to make it of any use. Plus I didnt think a coaxil had such a range of movement as bow for this purpose either? Why would you say that? So it takes, say, five or ten seconds to bring it onto target, so what? That infantry squad in the foxhole isn't going anywhere. You aim and squirt. Simple. It's no slower than bringing the cannon onto the same target, and plenty of soldiers learned to fear that. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gibsonm Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 Horncastle, Re AT gun ranging. If its a prepared position (i.e. in place for more than a few hours) the gun crew would have constructed a range card (via map or foot recce) so they would know that the tree on the ridge was 500m away or the road junction was XXXm etc.). That way when the enemy arrived they would normally have a pretty good idea of ranges involved (and indeed may have already bore sighted, actually fired rounds, on some known points) and recorded the settings. Re Coax MG usage. Normally you use the coax MG to take advantage of the turret's sighting system and stable platform to engage longer range targets (500m+). Infantry swarming out of a pit 5m away would be targets for the bow MG, Flex mount MG, Nahverteidigungswaffe on later German tanks, or the vehicle would move to a position where the turret weapons (main and coax could be bought to bear). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 Originally posted by gibsonm: Infantry swarming out of a pit 5m away would be targets for the bow MG, Flex mount MG, Nahverteidigungswaffe on later German tanks, or the vehicle would move to a position where the turret weapons (main and coax could be bought to bear). Or they would ask a neighboring tank to "scratch their back". Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gibsonm Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 Originally posted by Michael Emrys: Or they would ask a neighboring tank to "scratch their back".Micheal, Never been a big fan of hosing down a neighbouring callsign with coax - damages too much personal kit stowed externally. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 Originally posted by gibsonm: Originally posted by Michael Emrys: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Or they would ask a neighboring tank to "scratch their back".Micheal, Never been a big fan of hosing down a neighbouring callsign with coax - damages too much personal kit stowed externally. </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gibsonm Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 The problem we have here (in Aust) is the country that built the AFV (Leopard 1A4 - hopefully soon to be replaced with Leo 2 A6 or worst case with M1A2) is a different country to the people who dreamed up the stowage plan and what you "need" to carry - not even thinking about "jack" rations and other non official gear that crews tend to bring along. Mind you I'm sure that in a longish shooting war (3mths+) most of that non essentail gear would be lost, left behind etc. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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