Is this game any good?

[chanss]

Nothing was moving, it completely froze from what i can see

[Cid250]

Originally posted by Darkmath:

Cid250 , each time you have posted on this board, haven't you always whined about the lack of "true WEGO" ( I should remind you that the same dev. who has programmed CMSF is the same who has created WEGO years ago... But anyway, you know better than anyone what is true WEGO, right? )

All right, now are you able to prove that every issues we mostly see now cannot be improved by patching the initial engine?

At last but not least, you have time benefit with your magical blue bar only in small scenario. Do you remember these huge CMX1 scenarios which could took more than 2 mins. to do the calculations?

So you want the dev. to bring it back?

More than 2 minutes, is perfect!... that's just what i expect... even 15 minutes of dedicated CPU, it's fine for a wargamer. In a wargame some turns takes even hours. The more time, the best for the TacAI.

And... it wasn't a whine exactly... when i was preordering my copy of CMSF, the list of features included WeGO. Any customer that pays in advance, goes to buy a car and returns with a bike... has his rights to complain as customer.

WeGO is now real time paused at intervals, not true WeGO. And this is very clear if you play the game. We don't have TCP/Ip, and the status of TacAI is a pain in the ass for any serious WeGO player... may be in real time you can solve the bad TacAI with a click fest... but in WeGO you just doesn't have a serious game.

An that's is very important in Player vs Player, WeGO.

The initial engine is designed with the focus of being able to do all the AI maths on real time, and this... considering the increasing detail on ballistics, speaks for it self. Those are bad news for the WeGO players... because we can sacrifice CPU time in any turn when we play the game as a "wargame"... is not problem for me if a single turn takes 15 minutes to be calculated in the CPU. I prefer the quality AI over speed.

Battlefront is a small company, and even big companies with lots of resources have serious problems to provide good AI algorithms within the limits of "real-time".

I doesn't complain about this game being focused on real time, since in the box they said that this game has both: real-time and WeGO gameplay.

The real time players can enjoy his dumb TacAI, if they want.

But in a product sold with WeGo listed as feature, is a bad move to remove the fantastic WeGo implementation of the past by a place-holder. The TacAI in the past had enough quality for serious Player vs Player games.

We have now the same bad AI than you get when a complex game goes for real time constraints. And doing so, we have a bad quality wargame.

They limited the size of 8x8 grid is not chosen for pleasure... but for computational constraints, when the ideal is 1x1, but it's not possible.

So i can't understand why they doesn't even consider the opinion of some customers about the fact that many players will love to have better TacAI over WeGo without the heavy constraints of time limits.

We want to play the game as WeGO with the benefits of TacAI not being calculated on real time. It's needed exclusive CPU usage 10 minutes long? What's the problem, we chosen to play WeGo, and get the benefits of almost unlimited amount of time for the TacAI.

We doesn't want a WeGO fake, (placeholder), based on real time with auto-pause.

Good TacAI is everything for satisfactory WeGO player versus player.

Pathfinding, can be solved with some work in several patches, that's not the problem on long term. But the real-time constraint, is a problem that still they doesn't want to face... to ignore an important proportion of customers, is not a good policy. Specially when your popularity has the roots on hundred of wargamers that loved to play with a quality WeGO implementation.

This engine need to break his constraints... to provide satisfactory gameplay for both: real-timers and WeGOers.

[ September 15, 2007, 11:18 AM: Message edited by: Cid250 ]

[Huntarr]

Originally posted by Cid250:

WEGO should have a mandatory exclusive CPU time...

I agree... We don't have WEGO at all in CMSF.

Everything should be calculated under the realm of a progress bar... without time cuts!. Who cares if the progress bar takes 7 minutes or even 10 minutes in a PBEM game?.

[ August 02, 2007, 01:21 PM: Message edited by: Cid250 ]

--------------------

Bring Back the true WEGO, please.

100% exclusive CPU time without 60s real time limits for the WEGO!.

Even if it takes 2 to 3 minutes in a modern CPU to calculate a quality Tactical-AI, it's better than "mandatory" realtime for WEGO players.

Not yet... since our TacAI sucks and it surely will suck in the next 365 days of development.

WeGO is not about fix path finding. A good TacAI is the core of WeGO, (even for multiplayer WeGO).

That's not true... we doesn't have WeGO in CMSF at all. Only a vanilla version of realtime-auto pause.

To get WeGO, you need good TacAI that makes your troops act more realistically when they spot some targets or become under fire.

This game is fully realtime oriented... don't even speak of WeGO, if you want to sound like a serious reviewer, WeGO it's only the name of the menu that they placed in their realtime with auto-pause option... all the maths of the TacAI are done in real time... without any stop for 100% dedicated CPU calculations.

I didn't consider it an attack. I was asking you how you could make the leap from a video game discussion to one of the biggest pieces of scum on the planet (Taliban) Where do you get that kind of radical thinking? That is all I was asking you. If you hadn't noticed that your continued attacks towards BFC are what some could consider radical. As others have suggested to you you might think about moving on or back to CMBB. You've made your radical point clear, I've even taken the time to repost some of them for others who might not have seen them.

[Cid250]

I'm not radical at all... i only have a strong opinion, and a strong will, that's all

I doesn't attack to Battlefront... they did master pieces with few resources. If i attack something here... is the opinion of Battlefront about keeping out the good things that we already know that works great!.

To attack opinions is much different than to attack persons or enterprises, is more clear now?.

If something works in the past, you at least must take a look, to the current status of WeGO, and post any info about your long term plan.

It doesn't matter if they can't address it until 2 years. I can understand the lack of resources...

But closed minds worries me. The most modern isn't always the better. I love modern things when they improve something... but that's not the case, since WeGO is much worse than earlier... can be said that it's even non existent.

[KNac]

Not that hard to udenrstand this:

TacAI is at is programmed, it doesn't matter how much cpu cycles youd evote to it. they are not going to perform better than they do.

it's not a matter of how much time is dedicated to the AI, but how the AI isntructions are writting. CPU proccessing power IS NOT a problem man. everyone has said this to you and you still not get it.

if the computer has any problem the game will slow down and this has been seen allready.

better not let's comment such bull****s as CMx1 TacAI was better than CMx2. CMx2 TacAI is way better, but 1:1 rep. and less abstractions make some problems arise, which will be polished over time.

if someone does not want to see the reality, there is nothing one can do

[shredder]

Originally posted by chanss:

What you people think about it? I have not bought it as of yet

Well, since I "don't get it", I'd say don't waste your money, but those out there who "get it" will tell you that it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. Your best bet it to play the demo, see if you "get it", then make your best judgement - good luck.

[Dennis50]

Originally posted by shredder:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by chanss:

What you people think about it? I have not bought it as of yet

Well, since I "don't get it", I'd say don't waste your money, but those out there who "get it" will tell you that it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. Your best bet it to play the demo, see if you "get it", then make your best judgement - good luck. </font>

[yapma]

The quality of the AI is not related to the amount of processing power devoted to it? Are you really sure about this?

[SlowMotion]

I asked whether you get better working AI if you have a very fast PC, like maybe smarter path finding etc. Steve answered that if AI calculations take lots of time the game reduces screen refresh rate. In other words current AI should be just as smart no matter what kind of PC you have.

[KNac]

YES, have been said a zillion times.

If you have a program which is made to calculate rests, you can't ask it to do divisions, no matter your computer is 100mhz or 3Ghz.

If the computer cn't handle so much isntructions in RT, it will slow down, but WON'T stop executing any instruction.

So, AI is not dependant of proccessing power, but on the complexity of programmed instructions. With time that will get better (more programming time devoted to it). There are a lot of singularities and combinations that have to be programmed into the AI, as well as some existing oens that can be tunned to perform better.