Mac 9.2.1/OSX nvidia geforce 3

[Fate]

Recently got a new mac with a geforce 3. In reading thru the posts, it seems as tho the Classic Rave extension does not support the Rave api's used in CM. However, it freezes in Classic mode from OSX when I enter a email password. I find I must play it in 9.2.1 and make sure I switch to 800x600. This means I am running in software emulation. No major problems with this, except having to boot down into 9.2.1 everytime I want to play and i'd like to play with more res and hardware acceleration.

So:

1. Anybody figure out or has it workin in Classic mode from osx? And if so how?

2. Anybody got hardware acceleration working in 9.2.1 with a geforce 3 (or any geforce)?

Thanks

Fate

[Schrullenhaft]

If OS X is involved in any way (OS X native or Classic Mode), then you will be unable to get hardware acceleration for CMBO since the Classic RAVE extension exists to intercept hardware RAVE calls. As you surmised, Classic RAVE can't interpret or pass on the RAVE 1.6+ calls that CMBO is making to OS X's OpenGL renderer.

As for 9.2.1 - When you boot into 9.2.1 (and it isn't being launched as 'Classic Mode' from within OS X) if you are loading the Classic RAVE extension (which is installed by default to my knowledge) then it may interfere with hardware video acceleration. Remove this extension (I've actually heard it is best to REMOVE it rather than disable it) and possibly remove the ATI-related video extensions. I've read that a number of users believe that the video drivers included with 0S 9.2.1 are quite a bit slower than the ones included with 0S 9.1.

I'd suggest deleting the CM Prefs file to have CM initialize at a different resolution. With hardware rendering you will probably notice that the sky texture is black/corrupted... this is due to the currently available NVidia drivers for RAVE and there is no work around for this (other than running in software-rendering mode). NVidia is aware of this and hopefully the next update from Apple will fix this problem (whenever the next NVidia patch is released).

[Fate]

Thanks for the info, pretty much as I supposed.

Took out the Classic Rave extension but it puts it back in (don't know from where, removed it entirely from the system folder) when you fire up OSX and it goes into Classic Mode. The locks up loading 3d graphics.

in 9.2.1 I can actually play for a bit in 1024x768 but the mousegame typically locks up after a bit of moving the views around. In 800x600, no problem. if i'm getting into 1024x768 at all, i guess i'm in hardware accelerated mode?

9.2.2 out in a few days with updated nvidia drivers, I'll try again then.

Fate

[Schrullenhaft]

I believe that the 9.x System Folder that is designated as the 'Classic Mode' folder will have Classic RAVE (and other Classic-associated extensions) reloaded if they've been removed the next time you boot into OS X. I'm not absolutely sure how to get Classic RAVE removed/disabled to allow software rendering in Classic Mode (within OS X).

Basically you need a separate partition for 9.x so that you can play CMBO without interference from 0S X. This means that you'll need a 9.2.1 System Folder on the OS X partition and have that designated as the Classic Mode folder. That should allow you to remove the Classic-associated extensions in the separate 9.x partition and not have to repeat the process of removing the Classic extensions.

On the Mac, as far as I'm aware, if you're running above 800x600 then you're using hardware rendering. I've heard of problems with particular resolutions on GeForces in Macs and 1024x768 seems to be a common one. I believe 1280x1024 (or maybe 1152x870) will work if you want to go to a higher res.

[Fate]

Well how about that! I went away from trying 1024x768 and went to 1600x1024 (native res on my Cinema Display) and it works and looks great!

Also bumped up the memory from 60,000 to 80,000 which might of had something to do with it.

Thanks for the nvidia tip, Schull.

Fate

[Gyrene]

Fate, you made no mention of the black skies problem with the GeForce cards.

Do you have that problem, or perhaps it is not there with GeForce 3 cards?

Gyrene

[Fate]

Nope, still black skies but a pretty minor issue compared to nice 3d and not locking up.

Fate

[Gyrene]

Ah...Ok.

I thought somehow you had found the Mac-CM Holy Grail.

Gyrene

[Hoopenfaust2]

Hey Gyrene, hopefully this is fixed for CMBB cuz I just forked over $4000 Cdn for a new G4.

I was wondering, if I purchased a radeon card could I have both graphic cards installed on the one machine, and if so how would it work.

As soon as I get my new mac I'm deleting all Mac OsX files and downgrading to 9.1...cuz I trust 9.1

[Schrullenhaft]

Hoopenfaust 101 - I'd assume that having both a GeForce & a Radeon (one would have to be a PCI card though) would work in a system. I believe CM will come up on the display that is designated the main display with the Menu Bar and/or Control applet-thingy. I don't know if there would be any driver interaction issues, but I'd assume that it would work.

I believe that the G4's all come with AGP GeForces now rather than Radeons.

I believe that BTS will attempt to take measures with the sky bitmaps in CMBB to make them compatible with the current GeForce drivers if possible and/or necessary. I'm not sure if the bitmap problem is an issue of size (unfortunately it probably isn't - which would be the quickest route to a solution) or of the way that the bitmaps are stretched and mapped to the polygons. From the look of past screenshots of CMBB(assuming that they were shot with some of the correct textures that they intend to include) it seems as if the default size of the sky bitmap texture has been increased over CMBO's.

[Hoopenfaust2]

I've just learned that if you buy a new mac (which comes with 9.2) you can't downgrade to 9.1...thank you apple

What should I do. Is it just OpenGL that has problems? I'll just grab the older ones off my older computer ( that should work) I'm never gonna use MacOSX since as a designer it doesn't help me one bit. So if I have MacOS Xtra eye candy deleted I shouldn't have any problems.

I'm really scared about not having CM running properly on my new computer.

wimp

Brett

[Schrullenhaft]

CMBO/CMBB should work on your new G4 with OS 9.2.x. The biggest issue is to remove the Classic RAVE extension, which if you're not using OS X won't be necessary for anything. There are also a couple of other 'Classic'-oriented extensions/programs that you'll want to remove from the System Folder too, since they will serve no purpose with a straight OS 9.2.x system.

I've heard some people on the Apple forums say that the 9.1 drivers were better (refresh rate and speed) than the ones included with 9.2.x. Since 9.2.2 is due out soon, maybe Apple will have tweaked the drivers and actually improved them. OpenGL 1.2.2 should work fine with CM, replacing it with 1.2.1 doesn't seem to do anything for CM users to my knowledge.

The resolution and 'black-sky' issue with the GeForce drivers may or may not get addressed with whatever comes with 9.2.2. It may take NVidia/Apple awhile to fix it, though a NVidia rep has contacted BTS and they're aware of the problems.

[Gyrene]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr> I was wondering, if I purchased a radeon card could I have both graphic cards installed on the one machine, and if so how would it work.

As soon as I get my new mac I'm deleting all Mac OsX files and downgrading to 9.1...cuz I trust 9.1

<hr></blockquote>

I have a Apple issue Radeon in my DP G4 and everything works great, I still have a GeForce 2 sitting in a box that look like it wil never get used now.

Two cards would work, but I haven't done it myself, I couldn't help you much there.

I actually really like OS X, I have been running it for the last month and a half (Haven't played any CM in a while) and since I have gotten used to it I really like it now. I haven't had a single system crash this entire time, and I appreciate the excellent multitasking more and more every day.

If CM ran in Classic I'd never go back.

CM still runs fine under a 9.2.1 boot up.

Even before you couldn't downgrade OS's (Like from 8.6 to 8.5) without formatting the drive, and I don't see why a Quicksilver G4 can't use 9.1 if you do the drive from scratch.

Gyrene

[Fate]

Hoop, CM works fine under 9.2.1 other than the black sky thing which is minor eye candy anyways.

I think going back to 9.1 wold be a big mistake. If you really wanted, you could partition off a chunk of your disk and put it there, but there's really no need.

In a year or two, there isn't going to be a lot of new os9 software coming out. Macs soon will be coming with osx only and that's where the developers of cutting edge software will be.

Fate

[MajorH TacOps Developer]

>In a year or two, there isn't going to be a lot of

>new os9 software coming out. Macs soon

>will be coming with osx only and that's where

>the developers of cutting edge software will be.

Chuckle .

In two years we will be complaining because our investment in "OSX only" software doesn't work properly anymore as we go through more or less the same thing with OSX Plus, and then the following year with OSX SE, and then the year after with OSX MegaDoodle.

The ongoing OS "eye candy" race between Apple and Microsoft reminds me of the silly tail fins that appeared on U.S. cars in the early 60s and grew larger each year until the fad collapsed in its own ridiculousness.

Best regards, Major H

[newlife]

Black Sky? I run 9.2.1 and don't have that problem. Is it a hardware thing? I use G4 titanium book, but I don't know if it has geForce or not.

[Schrullenhaft]

Yes, it is a hardware-related issue. The drivers for the GeForces on the Mac display a black/corrupted sky. Your G4 Titanium Powerbook uses an ATI Radeon Mobility to my knowledge, so you probably won't see any problems in CMBO (or CMBB for that matter).