B0nes Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 My first post: I'm in a Thor head to head with another bot controlled Thor. I get the first shot in (AP at close range) and I aim at the lower front hull (where the frontal armour is weakest). We trade blows and my Thor blows up first. This has happened to me a few times and I was wondering what am I doing wrong? :confused: I notice when I fire at the lower hull there is a small explosion on the ground in front of the Thor as though my shot has bounced back and in to the dirt. I know you're thinking I got the range wrong and the gun isn't sufficiently elevated. But since this has happened a few times... Any thoughts? BTW, great game. It's like Steel Beasts but more accessible. Would like to see more players on the 1.02 servers. I notice the demo server is very popular. Another question while I think of it: I play on the Delta_Pavonis server as it has the best ping for me (120 to 140). Why are most of the games CTF? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yurch Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 Let me start out by saying 120mm AP is a quirky round. It has a property that destroys a penetrated object 10% of the time, so in a shot for shot contest with this round, there's a bit of luck involved. It is likely your shot is bouncing into the dirt. If you are penetrating, it's probably not by much. The lower hull may or may not be a good spot to hit depending on your angle to it, your distance, and the atmosphere of the map. If you're above the thor, you may actually want to go for the top part instead. There is an alternative, however. The part of the track that's exposed from the front is far weaker than the v shaped front plating on the thor. (edit: it's not weaker, just a better angle, apparently) Have your shot enter the track, preferably on the side that will get your round to pass closest through the center of the thor. Hit as high as possible without hitting the cover plate over the track. 120mm AP can penetrate this track over 1000 meters with FAR more consistancy, and you can kill thors this way through round fragmentation, or that 10% kill factor I mentioned above. 76mm can penetrate this area as well, but it does not have the 10% property or a very good fragmentation. If you can manage it, the obvious answer is to not attack the thor from the front. On the servers, that's just the way delta pavonis is set up. The Gnostic server has more objective games. [ July 17, 2006, 12:01 PM: Message edited by: yurch ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
konstantine Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 Funny, I get this with paladins all the time. I get the first shot (76mm) and multiple penetrations and my 20mm equipped opponent always wins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yurch Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 Well, that's a different situation. 20mm is an absolute monster when it comes to fragmentation and direct killing power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaytoniousRex Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 Konstantine, if you're losing with a 76 vs. a 20 then there's only one answer: YOU'RE TOO CLOSE. You're fighting within HIS weapon's optimal range. Force the fight back out into YOURS. At medium range his shots won't be able to penetrate but you can keep punching holes in him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poesel Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 Yeah, you will make lots of holes and he will be lucky if hes got a single working tire left, but kill? Forget it. I really love the 76mm but its a pacifists weapon: you incapacitate but don't kill. Really, I mean it. Example: take a common bot in a Thor. Stay behind a hill with your trusty 76mm. Chances are that the bot looks the other way. Peak around and shot him in the back of the h... ah, turret Penetration no problem. After a few shots you got his gunner and the turret is smoking. But kill - no. Even though theres the ammo depot in that turret - it doesn't explode. So you continue to shoot and sometime later the bot feels to cheesy (as in 'swiss cheese') and bails out. Ok, one Thor out of the game but no &%$"& explosion. Phew, that had to be said. IMHO the game balance for 76mm is very good. It carries far, has a good chance against most armour and the rate of fire is nice. But sometimes, only sometimes - I wish that somethig would explode... just a bit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B0nes Posted July 17, 2006 Author Share Posted July 17, 2006 Thanks Yurch. I guess the bots were hitting the "sweet spot" on my Thor. Or do the bots just aim at centre of mass? Looking fwd to playing a game with all you guys at some stage. Being in Dublin means I've got timezone problems. It's usually just me an' the bots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yurch Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 No idea where the bots aim. poesel71: If you can bring the 76mm to bear on a specific subsystem you'll do more damage over time to it than 120mm AP. Reason being you'll get 4 shots in for every 1 AP round. You gotta be exact, though, 76mm has a pretty poor fragmentation. If you want to kill thor fast you gotta kill the battery. The battery spot is actually pretty low on the chassis. Aiming here kills the thor with three 76mm rounds. Note the thor is slightly above me. If you're behind the thing you have to chew through the engine first. Theoretically you can kill the battery with 2 shots, but I'm not too sure how damage is dealt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
konstantine Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 Wow some great follow up to what was really just a passing comment on my part. I was in fact always too close. I've read the manual three times but I guess the penetration modelling never sunk in--and here I've been playing Combat Mission for almost five years. Incidentally, if I kill a vehicle's turret in a Paladin (especially the fast 76mm, ion or 20mm non-Hermes) I rarely follow up and try for the kill. Less points for me in the end, but it actually means the bot is out of action for a longer period of time--he waits and then commits suicide, as opposed to dropping immediately after I waste time killing it. This comes in handy when attacking the base, as the bot is out of commission defending the flag for a few more valuable seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poesel Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 Oh, seems to be I've always aimed too high. Gotta remember the schematics better... Thanks yurch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan/california Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 I believe Yurch's advice holds for shooting paladins from the side too. Low middle results in instant brewup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mace Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 Anyone tried sowing mines on a slow mover like a Thor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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