monTarakid Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 Brian, excellent thought of providing a "bonus" when playing against human pilots. Puts me square on your side for making proposed changes. mTk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 I noticed a small change last night because of eth introduction of the new matching policy, or at least I assume so. I have a 70 pt pair who used to face 2 x 38 pt enemies, but last night flew againt a 20 and a 38 - hence reducing the amount of EXP available to me. A suggestion - there's a big gap between the 20 pt AI leaders and the 38 pt ones - somethign around 28-30 pts would be a really useful addition to teh "8 step programme" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lakespeed Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 Ouch! I've gotten smoked against the AI since the changes have taken place. Maybe it's just a fluke, but I've been shot down almost every mission, with no chance of parole. I also had a set of rookies on thier first mission draw pilots with skills, they never even stood a chance. Also, someone seriously needs to shuffle the cards. When you start with 12 cards, all of them IMS or manuevering, and you get jumped with 3 OOTS cards in a row, twice, makes me think that someone out there hates me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartbert Posted December 7, 2005 Author Share Posted December 7, 2005 The recent changes involved more than just using skills as the basis of putting a value on pilots. The changes also inject a bit more variation in AI opponents. One of the previous complaints was that you tended to see the same pilots flying the same aircraft. The new system will produce a much broader range of possibilities. Suppose that you have a middle level pilot (3 or 4 skills) flying a middle level aircraft. The program will use your aircraft as a target value for choosing the AI aircraft, but will include aircraft a notch or two better and a notch or two worse than that target value. Based on the aircraft chosen, it will then try to find a target pilot value that will get the AI as close to the game value as possible. But again, it will include pilots that are a notch or two better, and a notch or two worse than the target value. The end result is that your AI opponent could be flying an aircraft that is worse than yours and could have a pilot that is worse than your pilot. Or you could find yourself going up against an AI opponent that has a better aircraft and a better pilot than you have. Or something in between those two extremes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 I thought it was doing all that already??!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixxkiller Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 Wow this has actually made this game play differently. I like that the AI isnt cheating evey mission now. Even though I have only played a few missions and didnt have time to read the rest of this thread, I love the idea of bonuses in flying against human opposition. Maybe you could do a medal fo people who fly a certain amount of missions against humans or shoot down humans. -Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartbert Posted December 7, 2005 Author Share Posted December 7, 2005 Originally posted by Stalin's Organist: I thought it was doing all that already??!! It was to a certain extent, but particularly at the low and high ends of the pilot experience spectrum, the previous method was not very effective at providing variety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tornado Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 Originally posted by lakespeed: Ouch! I've gotten smoked against the AI since the changes have taken place. Maybe it's just a fluke, but I've been shot down almost every mission, with no chance of parole. I also had a set of rookies on thier first mission draw pilots with skills, they never even stood a chance. Also, someone seriously needs to shuffle the cards. When you start with 12 cards, all of them IMS or manuevering, and you get jumped with 3 OOTS cards in a row, twice, makes me think that someone out there hates me! I have also experienced the problem with manuevering and IMS cards as described above. It has happened in three seperate missions. In one mission 9 out of 10 cards were IMS. In another one, 6 out of 8 cards were manuever. Anyone else experiencing this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lordtiger Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 My 2 cents 1. Great Idea. 2. Really don't like , the skills balance themselfs, with some that add and some that take away. If a player has put all that time into the game, why take it away. 3. Good Idea 4. Do not like, if you shot down a plane it should not matter, if you played agains the AI or a real player. Unless you are saying the AI is weak? I mean some of us just cannot always find players to play against, so why penalize us. 5.Would have to see how this worked, it sounds good. Some other suggestions 1.How about adding more skills 2.how about letting a player try to intercept some bombers, but limit to 1 flight attacking against an escort and a flight of bombers not to give the player to much of an advantage. 3. How about letting us use our made pilots in campaign games. 4. How about letting a pilot pick his theater of operation. pacific or european 5. How about adding some more countries, Italy & Russia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liebchen Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 I see that you're thinking of reducing the value of kills against the AI. Sometimes, however, a 2v2 game only has three people, and the fourth is covered by the AI. Will you count those kills at full value? [ December 07, 2005, 05:26 PM: Message edited by: Liebchen ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartbert Posted December 7, 2005 Author Share Posted December 7, 2005 Well, like I mentioned a few posts back, I think the idea of reducing the value of AI kills is dead. We will instead provide some positive incentives for playing against humans. Those incentives will probably apply as long as there are at least two humans playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 Yes it need only be applied to whatever target whas shot down - so if you shoot down a robot a/c in a 2:2 game then you dont' get it - fairly simple I would have thought. As for what sort of bonus....... an EXP benefit is the obvious one. A higher chance of getting a decoration or promotion would appeal to those who desire such baubles....like me Lower fatigue is another - although human opponetns are often more tiring "in real life"!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartbert Posted December 7, 2005 Author Share Posted December 7, 2005 We were kicking around the idea of making it so that the one-mission use skills would be awarded when playing human vs. human missions. Not automatically, of course, but the opportunity for them to be awarded would be there. Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted December 8, 2005 Share Posted December 8, 2005 You mean AFTER playing Human-vs Human games I presume? Make it a higher chance than vs the AI? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fej425 Posted December 8, 2005 Share Posted December 8, 2005 Just wanted to say that I have also seen long runs of of both Manuvering and IMS cards. Very frustrating when you get on someone's tail in turn 2 and never get a single shooting card the rest of the way it's very frustrating. I love the new way of determining matchups. At first I had some doubts as I was a little outmatched the first couple games, but then I fought some guys weaker than me as well. Just a lot more variety, excellent. I still don't like the idea of AI kills being worth less. I played several games against a human opponent, and it will definately be my preferred method. That having been said, unfortunately most of my games will still be against AI for a couple reasons: 1) I get home from work at 1:30 am ET, not many folks online. 2) When I am on at reasonable hours on my days off, I won't invite someone to a game unless I am absolutely certain I can play it uninterrupted so as not to wreck their experience. This can be tricky with a wife and 2 year old. I love playing 'live' against other people, but it may not always be realistic to do so. I understand wanting to promote player vs player, but I think as a few more people try it out, it will promote itself as it is a blast! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fej425 Posted December 8, 2005 Share Posted December 8, 2005 Sorry to be so long winded... Should have added to my last post that I also don't think it necessary to provide extra awards as an incentive to play against humans. The fun is incentive in itself. To an extent I think there is some of the junior high dance mentality out there, no one wants to be the first to ask for a game. As more people do and try it out, it will take off I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartbert Posted December 8, 2005 Author Share Posted December 8, 2005 Originally posted by Stalin's Organist: You mean AFTER playing Human-vs Human games I presume? Make it a higher chance than vs the AI? Yes, they would be awarded at the end of the mission, just like medals and promotions are awarded. So you wouldn't get to use the one-mission skill until the next time that pilot flies a mission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liebchen Posted December 8, 2005 Share Posted December 8, 2005 Originally posted by fej425: unfortunately most of my games will still be against AI for a couple reasons: 1) I get home from work at 1:30 am ET, not many folks online. 2) When I am on at reasonable hours on my days off, I won't invite someone to a game unless I am absolutely certain I can play it uninterrupted so as not to wreck their experience. This can be tricky with a wife and 2 year old. I love playing 'live' against other people, but it may not always be realistic to do so. I understand wanting to promote player vs player, but I think as a few more people try it out, it will promote itself as it is a blast! I live in California and the list of players online when I sign on is usually quite small, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartbert Posted December 8, 2005 Author Share Posted December 8, 2005 Originally posted by Lordtiger: Some other suggestions 1.How about adding more skills 2.how about letting a player try to intercept some bombers, but limit to 1 flight attacking against an escort and a flight of bombers not to give the player to much of an advantage. 3. How about letting us use our made pilots in campaign games. 4. How about letting a pilot pick his theater of operation. pacific or european 5. How about adding some more countries, Italy & Russia 1. More skills are definitely on the list of future updates. We have a bag full of ideas on new skills. We just have to decide the priority. 2. Good idea regarding intercept missions. We'll give that some thought. 3. We've seen the request to have player pilots be able to fly campaigns come up in various forms quite often. It's rising towards the top of the priority list, but we're just trying to figure out the best way to implement it. 4. Interesting idea with regard to picking a theater to fly in. That might fit in with item #3. 5. The first "Expansion Pack" will probably add Russia and Italy. It's way too early to be able to say what aircraft will be in it, or when it might be coming out. I'm sure it will depend somewhat on how the original game is doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixxkiller Posted December 8, 2005 Share Posted December 8, 2005 Well I think Dan knows how MUCH I love the MC 2005 (The bestest most awesomest and beautifulest plane EVER). I bet if the Russians are added that the Mig-3 will be on that list! Anyone wanna take that bet? -Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixxkiller Posted December 8, 2005 Share Posted December 8, 2005 Long Winded???? You have to be joking. Search for Kuroi Neko posts, he has more periods in a post than there are humans to walk the earth. I even tried to get Brian and Dan to issue him a medal, The Congressional Medal of Typing. And Fej, I think I can speak for ALMOST everyone when I say that we miss him a lot. He disapeard when all the riots were happening in France.... -Ray Originally posted by fej425: Sorry to be so long winded... Should have added to my last post that I also don't think it necessary to provide extra awards as an incentive to play against humans. The fun is incentive in itself. To an extent I think there is some of the junior high dance mentality out there, no one wants to be the first to ask for a game. As more people do and try it out, it will take off I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted December 11, 2005 Share Posted December 11, 2005 Originally posted by bartbert: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> Also I note that AI pilots never by "redraw"?? The AI pilots don't have the "Redraw" skill because it would require additional AI logic coding for them to be able to "decide" when to use the skill. We'll get around to it one of these days. </font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted December 11, 2005 Share Posted December 11, 2005 Originally posted by lakespeed: Also, someone seriously needs to shuffle the cards. When you start with 12 cards, all of them IMS or manuevering, and you get jumped with 3 OOTS cards in a row, twice, makes me think that someone out there hates me! Stop complaining - you're getting 2.6 kills/missoin on a monthly basis with your top pilots - WTF can be going wrong??!! Other than that sometimes you're the pigeon, sometimes you're the statue! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted December 11, 2005 Share Posted December 11, 2005 These new 47pt AI-super-pilots are pretty damned mean - you're worried about players getting 8-9 skills and you put these guys out with 11 + a bunch of Target Pilots??!! :eek: :eek: Are you sure the system is working OK? 'cos I reckon one of those guys is worth a lot more than any of my pilots, but I get one every time I fly as an escort - there seems to be no "easy" game where the interceptors are about 2/3rds of my value as there was at lower levels. And no it's not 'cos I lost an ace - he got shotdown by the 20 pt wingman!! :mad: I just had my firstescort vs 2 of them - I didn't last long As I said I've encountered them before, but the 2nd enemy pair is usually a "mere" 37-38" pt one. Also can we get the pt value corrected for just the permanent skills rather than the total? Ta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lakespeed Posted December 11, 2005 Share Posted December 11, 2005 Originally posted by Stalin's Organist: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by lakespeed: Also, someone seriously needs to shuffle the cards. When you start with 12 cards, all of them IMS or manuevering, and you get jumped with 3 OOTS cards in a row, twice, makes me think that someone out there hates me! Stop complaining - you're getting 2.6 kills/missoin on a monthly basis with your top pilots - WTF can be going wrong??!! Other than that sometimes you're the pigeon, sometimes you're the statue! </font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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