Enhanced Maps for SCENARIOS

[Retributar]

I like the idea of STRATEGIC COMMAND2's Overall Map...no problem there!...but, say i would like to play a specific SCENARIO instead of the whole CAMPAIGN game!.

The 'Battle For Italy' would be a good-example...with a FULL-BLOWN-MAP-OF-ITALY one could explore this battle in greater depth...why-not have full-blown larger scale maps for these 'Specific-Regional-Battles'!. This idea appeals to me very much.

Any chance of that later as an add-on?.

[Roosevelt45]

I'm sure you will be able to make this kind of map as a mod with the editor,no?

[pzgndr]

why-not have full-blown larger scale maps for these 'Specific-Regional-Battles'

Why not indeed! These will certainly be possible with the editor. Old classics like Anzio, Afrika Korps, Russian Campaign, and others may get a new life with this flexible game system. Throw in research, fog of war, event scripts, etc. :cool:

I wouldn't expect "formal" add-ons, but scenario mods galore should find their way into the community soon enough after SC2 is released.

[J P Wagner]

Is it too soon to tell if there will be an

unpassable tile choice?... What I am refering to is that some custom maps may not completely cover the grid...there may be corners or other sections of a grid that are not needed for a custom map...I know that you can remove rows of tiles, but can you remove only portions of a row?...if not, then an "unpassable" terrain tile could be used to block out unnecessary tiles....

[pzgndr]

The new depression terrain is unpassable, specifically for the Quattara Depression in Egypt. Either this or sea tiles could be used to block land movements.

[J P Wagner]

Good news..the depression terrain would work just fine and keep the map aesthetically pleasing to the eye....

[Desert Dave]

A couple of these would be nice...

Spaced here and there in between the burned out hulks of Pz IVs and the scattered remains of wind-blown desert redoubts, once supposed by mortals to be... impregnable... but, now, mostly wood and steel bits & pieces sticking up forlornly out of momently growing sand dunes... which stretch far, far into the humidly gritty distance.

[Retributar]

Also...ive read about Map Limitation size problems in the game!.

Well...whynot do what 'WIR' War In Russia did...at least they had the concept...they divided the German War Effort into 3 distinct regions. West-Front, East-Front & South-Front(From Italy & Down).

this-way we could have 3 Large maps for each region...and then the excuse about HEXES limiting map-size would instantly become HISTORY!.

Also...the game would play much better as well...thats my belief!.

[Retributar]

Heh!...im usually thinking in Divisions....not Corp's or Armies. So that brings up a point now that i didn't think of before,...when it comes to designing your own scenarios.

If i wanted to design my own 'Battle For Italy'...i would rather have smaller units than ARMIES...what-about a provision to create units as small as Divisions or Brigades...and be able to name them?.

Also ...if i wanted to use 'Historical Units'...could the Editor include options for withdrawing or recieving Units that were withdrawn or sent in Historically?.

It could warn you a few turns before hand...then automatically remove the unit!.

[ May 21, 2004, 07:36 AM: Message edited by: Retributar ]

[Shaka of Carthage]

You already have the ability to "create" units smaller than Corps. As the basic SC2 system is based on a 50 mile tile and a Corp sized unit, if you wanted to use a Division or Brigade as your basic unit, simply decrease the size of the tile.

In other words, assume a tile is 7.5 miles and your basic unit is a Brigade. Or whatever you decide when you design that scenario.

You will then have all the joys that a designer has when he initially designs his game. Thats when we'll see that most people will simply copy the existing work of others and not do anything very creative.

[ev]

Can we have a "clear terrain with no infrasturcture"? For short, let's call it "unconnected".

These would represent areas of the map where there are no roads or railroads, no infrastructure. You could not operate in or out of this terrain. But most important, supply into or through this kind of terrain would be more difficult. My suggestion is that the "movement cost' for calculating supply would be doubled when supplying into or through unconnected terrain.

[Retributar]

Ive been looking for maps,...its been a bit of a problem for me to find good maps on the internet.

I would appreciate having the Map Database from SC2 included in the game-editor to make it easier to use those maps or portions there-of to expand to a larger size if desired...for scenario or campaign construction.

[J P Wagner]

I'm working on a prototype map for the Russian Civil War using Game Mapper just to see how it will look when completed....

[ May 23, 2004, 07:49 PM: Message edited by: J P Wagner ]

[Retributar]

How do you draw or lay in an image of a map then size it and dice it up into tiles according to whether it will be used by Armies , Corps , Divisions or Regiments?.

[Desert Dave]

How do you draw or lay in an image of a map then size it and dice it up into tiles according to whether it will be used by Armies , Corps , Divisions or Regiments?.

Here's one way:

Let's say I am making an "Afrika Korps" game scenario, which I am fully intending to do, and the distance across each tile is... ~ 12 miles.

Well, this is approximately one-fourth (1/4) of the SC2 distance per tile, true?

But, I do NOT have to divide all movement and combat factors by 4, because each unit is 4 times smaller, so the relationship between the presently provided units does not actually change.

Therefore, I will create the map of the North Afrikan coast, using the new map editor, and it will be complete with the Med Sea and Malta and southern Italy (... to establish potential Axis economic power for this scenario) and then I will take the provided units and INSTEAD of being Armies and Fleets and Air Forces, they will NOW become Battalions and Brigades and Divisions, and individualized clusters of ships, and small Air groupings.

It doesn't really matter how you do this, so long as the RELATIVE combat values are precisely viable.

And, the movement scale, or "action points," will fit into this new ~12 mile tile schematic once they are appropriately modified.

All it takes from that point on, is some serious "play testing" to insure that the game remains within "reasonable" parameters, IE... the units cannot move more than what might be expected in the desert, and the units' combat abilities are kept within expected bounds.

The new! Editor will allow all of this to occur... it is merely to be careful to maintain all unit relationships. :cool:

Finally, anticipating one expected question:

Yes, there very well could be a way to have... "reinforcements."

And, best, likely several ways to do this.

Hubert will have to elaborate on these possibilities, if and when he has the time and inclination.

[... and, units being withdrawn; for this, you merely have to "disband" the unit in question, which would require some established "rules" before playing your mod scenario, IE, such & so unit will be dissolved at some certain time]

[ May 24, 2004, 01:39 PM: Message edited by: Desert Dave ]

[J P Wagner]

Dave...thanks for sharing some insight into the editor...If I may ask a question....how are coastlines, rivers and political borders made? ... Is there a freehand menthod when designing tile maps?

[Desert Dave]

JPW,

From this point on... Hubert will be providing almost ALL of the details for this truly amazing game.

There may be some exceptions down the road, as with AARs and the like, and so, we'll see.

As you can well imagine, there is a VERY good and compelling reason for this.

ONLY he knows what will be included.

And, HOW or even IF any features will, or will not be implemented.

I am not intending to avoid any further questions, but pzgndr and I ARE bound by a NDA, and from here on out, since there will be a transition from Alpha to Beta, we have to be, ummmm, more... circumspect.

But, we can and will elaborate on those "general aspects" (... and I am not referring to giving Guderian a rating of 9, which he DESERVES, IMHO) of the game,

BUT, as I say, Hubert truly should be the only one who is forthcoming, since he alone knows what is relevant to discussions... and, naturally, as he has the time. :cool:

[Edwin P.]

transition from Alpha to Beta

Now, thats great news.

[Desert Dave]

Notice however, eagle-eyed Edwin P, I did NOT say WHEN that would happen, only that... it would,

Which, is not much more exacting than saying Night will follow Day,

And Day will be hard on the black heels of Night,

Given, naturally, those hazy interludes,

Like evening and early reveille morning.

What!

An amazing group. :cool:

There is no greater bunch of sharp and inquisitive members anywhere, I swear!

Goes to show... each word must be deliberately considered, since there are those who will, finally, inevitably, see... everything!

Just as, in time, and as noon follows mid-morning coffee break... all will eventually know about this most wondrous! undertaking... SC2-Blitzkrieg! :cool:

[pzgndr]

how are coastlines, rivers and political borders made?

This isn't rocket science. Take a look at the screenshots. All those tiles you see are available in the editor. You can literally pick out whatever you want and place it wherever you want. You won't have any "freehand" drawing ability, but all those bitmap tiles and sprites could be edited. Beware that there are LOTS of them and editing them would be a major project.

[J P Wagner]

Originally posted by pzgndr:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> how are coastlines, rivers and political borders made?

This isn't rocket science. Take a look at the screenshots. All those tiles you see are available in the editor. You can literally pick out whatever you want and place it wherever you want. You won't have any "freehand" drawing ability, but all those bitmap tiles and sprites could be edited. Beware that there are LOTS of them and editing them would be a major project. </font>

[Edwin P.]

Will their be a tile hex type that will be unpassable to Armor/Mechanized units but will allow non-machanized armies to pass.

I am thinking about a range of mountains where the cost for armor units to enter it would be much higher as the armor unit must stay on the road or mountain hexes, aka Korean War, that Armor units could not traverse.

[Hubert Cater]

Will their be a tile hex type that will be unpassable to Armor/Mechanized units but will allow non-machanized armies to pass.

Nope, but there will be an impassable tile type, namely the depression terrain.

[Hubert Cater]

I guess what I was referring to is if someone tries to make a map that isn't part of the SC2 template...someone mentioned trying to make a Pacific Theater Game...I'm just confused how you can make a map of Japan or China, simply using the pre made SC2 European river, border, and coast tiles...to replicate the Korean Peninsula or the Chinese coast I thought would have needed a freehand ability which is why I mentioned it...eh!..whatever...in time all shall be revealed

Generally what we've tried to do is create a completely modular set of graphics for tiles, terrain, rivers etc., so in fact these were not specifically created for the European Theater alone (the look of some resources like cities yes, but these can all be edited). Although map making can take some time and patience, any style of map, coastlines etc. should be more than possible... it just comes down to selecting the appropriate tile shape, terrain, river and so on to fill in the map. This is also all done with the mouse so it is pretty straightforward.

For borders, this is dynamically handled by the editor... you just set the owner/occupier status of the tiles and the engine automatically draws the borders for you

[Retributar]

'Desert Dave'...i was reminded of you when i came accross this site. This is for you!.

http://www.geocities.com/firefly1002000/dakindx.html

I was particularily intrigued by "Gruppe Hecker's Amphibious Assault Plan"...i never heard about it until i stumbled onto this site!.