Greetings from russia!

[jon_j_rambo]

sing out,"He ain't going jump no more...Glory, glory, what a helluva way to die...he ain't going jump no more".

[jon_j_rambo]

"Hey what are you reading?"......"ah, it seems the Germans are very bad."

[jon_j_rambo]

"He says he's not a Nazi, all this time in Germany & I haven't met a Nazi yet"

[jon_j_rambo]

"Hey you, hey, you! That's right, you stupid Kraut bastard, say hello to Ford, & General Motors. You stupid Facist Pig. Dragging our lives & interrupting us all the way across the world, for what? You have horses." --- Webster

[jon_j_rambo]

this is a great episode...

[jon_j_rambo]

"somebody must have told them (the guards) that we were coming"

[jon_j_rambo]

"I'm not a Nazi"..."The locals said they knew nothing about the camp."

[waltero]

You can not compare one solder with another solder. They are the same!

Owned as it were.

Killers is what they are!

If you think you would of reacted any different you deceive yourselves!

War must be in our nature otherwise this hobby would not exist!

The Germans are no more murderer's then the Americans or any other Armed forces.

When it comes to war Killing and murder come hand in hand.

My Father never talked about the war, he fought for the allies. my uncle has allot of stories to tell he fought for the Germans.

I think no less of my uncle.

Rambo, you sound like the kind of guy who would blame the death of Christ on the Jews.

The whole world partook in the murdering of Innocent lives during WWII.

It took the power of an almighty God to bring the axis down!

So when it comes to giving glory or admiration to the victor, Give it to GOD!

Killing and murder belong to the solders.

Maybe to some it is like a score thing? Something along the lines of well the Germans Killed millions while we only thousands and the Germans started it first!

Not to worry, we will break that record in the next World war!

You can take war any way you like!

You could argue that WWII was not a game and I could argue that WWII was a game.

And I would be right.

So you fuznucken re-nobs who treat any veteran of WWII with discontent You know nothing!

The closest we will ever come to knowing War might be in books games or documentaries.

Being at any WWII Anniversary would be an awesome thing.

Rambo, You on the pipe Again?

[jon_j_rambo]

@Waltero --- So, you say God brought the Axis down? That's my point, the Allies were the good guys. If this wasn't so, why do you insist God brought down the Axis?

The United States was clearly the good guys in World War II. If you can't figure this out, well, maybe you never wiil.

AMAZING !!!

C.Trapp, Sir Jersey, & Waltero all believe the war was just...a bunch of people doing their duty with no difference between the sides. Funny thing is, these guys live in the USA, I wonder what people in Europe would say?

This is brainwashing at its best.

[ May 14, 2005, 11:21 PM: Message edited by: jon_j_rambo ]

[jon_j_rambo]

German dudes in the news.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050508/ap_on_re_eu/germany_victory_day

[Franky-Boy]

The United States was clearly the good guys in World War II. If you can't figure this out, well, maybe you never wiil.

Well, that's right. They fought for democracy and their ideological idea of a free world and capitalism. But in order to achieve this goal, the USA supported the devil Stalin and his evil regime, who murdered millions of people, just like the nazis.

They supported one devil to defeat the other. Interesting point of view: The USA knew that a victorious Germany would be a much bigger threat for world peace than a victorious Soviet Union.

By the way; I'm a German and I am glad that the USA helped to defeat Hitler, since: if Germany would have defeated Russia and the rest of Europe, we all would not live any more: I'm sure that the fascists would have caused a third world war with atomic weapons.

Ciao Frank

[Slapaho]

Britain did not enter the war against Germany for any ideological reasons, nor did the USA. Ideology was used to perpetuate the slaughter on all sides, especially the Germans who Hitler and the Nazis had to prevent from becoming 'war weary' and face the ultimate threat of Soviets winning the war. Britain declared war on Germany to aid Poland. At the end of the war Russia did more damage to Poland than Hitler had and they dealt with the Poles worse than they did with 'most' of Germany. So what help was Britain? Britain declared war on Germany using Poland as the pretence, with the main reason simply being that Britain saw Germany as becoming an intolerable threat to British colonial domination and they hoped to fight the war on French soil again to drain their other european rival - France itself. These high and mighty notions of 'good' and 'evil' are totally ridiculous, as well as implying god and religion played any part in any sort of 'victory' (if around 50 million dead or injured and that many again displaced can be called any sort of victory). Ask the jews if religion saved them, or do they worship the wrong god in your eyes?.

Men are at their best and worst in war.

[majama]

In my opinion Hitler was psychokiller, he cheated and swindled most German nations and destroy them by it.

Stalin was the same, but bigger traitor, longer murder and more cruel. He was the worse because get help from west to building imperium of evil for long years and destroy many human lives in many countries for longer time that fascism in WW2

[JerseyJohn]

Originally posted by jon_j_rambo:

C.Trapp, Sir Jersey, & Waltero all believe the war was just...a bunch of people doing their duty with no difference between the sides. Funny thing is, these guys live in the USA, I wonder what people in Europe would say?

This is brainwashing at its best.

No, Brother Rambo, that is not what we said and you don't have a clue as to what I believe in.

You're taking something that is still not very well understood and trying to make it a simple case of right and wrong, which it wasn't.

Also, what went on in Nazi Germany with the death camps is not unique, it's happened in many places in many guises. In WWI the Turks did it to the Armenians and recent examples can be found in Southeast Asia with the Khmer Rouge, in Iraq under Hussein, in Yugoslavia's Ethnic Cleansing and Ruwanda's Killing of the Cockroaches campaign. It's happening even as we write these things in the Sudan, where there is very little international interest in coming to the aid of the victims.

Your arguments just don't make sense and, despite your frequent voicing of them on this forum, it's hard for me to believe they're your real opinions. You're too inteligent for that so I can only imagine your goal is to get others to voice their opinions on the subject.

Also, it's inconceivable to me that you view the world through episodes of a tv series!

Some poor slob in a mudhole being shot at, crawling around and living like an animal, what we call a soldier, goes through the same things and for the same motivations in all countries.

As for us fighting to help the Jewish victims of concentration camps. If you look at the photographs of Bradley, Eisenhower and Patton, all of them four star generals at the time, as they have their first glimpses of the places they were finding, you see something beyong the disgust in their eyes. You see shock and complete surprise. Nobody, NOBODY outside of the SS knew the places existed the way they existed.

I'm not saying the German people didn't know something was going on, they did. What they thought was happenening was that European Jews were being resettled to Russia. Europe was rife with anti-semitism and I doubt many Europeans wept over that idea. But to say they knew of the death camps and supported them isn't true.

Only the SS knew about them, and that it was only the part of the SS that dealt directly with what they called the "Final Solution."

-- In the United States, reports of death camps were not believed in Washington because it was thought that the sheer amount of resources, especially rolling stock that would be tied up in such idiocy would make it impossible. The effort would be ruinous to Germany's war effort.

And it was.

-- As far as the Japanese never surrendering, most Japanese men were not overjoyed with the idea of giving their life for the Emperor. When given the opportunity they surrendered in hopeless situations by the tens of thousands like any else would have (New Guinea, for example). The suicidal fanatics happened to be the troops on most of the islands the United States had to fight for. That was deliberate, Japan used their Imperial Marines and other crack units in those places with the idea of convincing the Americans that should seek a negotiated peace to avoid heavy losses in later battles.

As for what people in Europe would say, they're saying it constantly in their posts and you're ignoring them because they aren't agreeing with you.

[Kuniworth]

well now, everybody take a deep breath and lets celebrate the russian people on their glorious and enormous achievment!

[jon_j_rambo]

@Sir Jersey --- It seems we have had this same conversation every 6 months, over a period of 3 years. It's called German Worship. The United States was the good guys. Honestly, I think the 1960's had a bad effect on you.

Okay guys let me make some things simple:

The USA was better than the Germans in morality.

The USA was better then the Russians in morality.

The USA was better than the Japanese in morality.

Have a Coke & a smile, I'm going to Disney!

-Legend

[jon_j_rambo]

Far as "people not knowing about the death camps", that's an absolute joke. 12 million people don't just disapper & nobody knows about it. That's like 12 cities the size of Portland, Oregon just vanishing.

It's hard enough for 2 people to keep a secret, let alone killing 12 million in camps & the people who did it. The German's couldn't even keep the "Killing of the 50" or "Malmedy" a secret.

-Legend

[SeaMonkey]

Hear! Here! I raise my glass in a toast to the valiant people of the former USSR(CCCP)in their enormous sacrifice to defeat tyranny. We, the ancestors of the survivors of the titanic struggle that was World War II send our deep felt appreciation for the many fallen souls of your brethren, may they rest in peace,.... for we will never forget.

[JerseyJohn]

Brother Rambo

What the hell is German Worship? Yeah, I like Bach, Beethoven (who was a German who went to Austria while Hitler was an Austrian who went to Germany), Brahms, Einstein (who was German) and innumerable Germans, including my grandparents, so I guess I am a German Worshiper.

To equate this with admiring facism is absurd.

Yeah, the sixties did have a bad effect on me, it showed me that Americans are no better than anyone else.

Okay, keep waving your flag and babbling about things you've learned from that world center, Boise Idaho, and for myself I'll continue to be misinformed by what I heard from at least a hundred Hollocaust survivors I knew and spoke at length to and the dozen of so former German soldiers I knew, innumerable Russians who left the Soviet Union, and the endless supply of WWII veterans I knew and talked with while growing up.

European Jews I knew who survived it, including those who came out of Germany, always said they knew the nazis were virulently anti-semitic but nothing prepared them for what they saw when they were rounded up. Not all went to death camps, many were sent to slave labor camps, which were horrible enough. And even they, when they later heard about the extermination camps, were shocked.

You're shouting into a cave and haven't bothered to bring a flashlight.

No offense, brother rambo, but you not only don't know what you're talking about but are also saying it very badly insulting everyone in sight.

Additionally, you've been paraphrasing things and taking them out of context.

German Lover, hey, that's really precious. Let's see, who else would there be, Thomas Mann, Bruno Walter -- oh wait, like Einstein those two had to leave Germany, one because he was Jewish and the other because he didn't agree with the Nazis. Hmmm? Okay, Goethe, Richard Struass, Gustav Mahler ...

[jon_j_rambo]

@Sir Jersey --- Lurking, eh? That's what I thought. I have insulted "everybody", just holding my stance that the United States was the good guys & the Germans were the bad guys. Has nothing to do with Stalin or Russia.

[jon_j_rambo]

@Sir Jersey --- Now you insult the people of Boise, Idaho? What's that all about? We have a great city! Want to compare crime to New Jersey? Economy? Family Life? New stores? How about technology or manfacturing jobs? How about food (20# bag of Idaho's finest for 89 cents). Want to goto the Anne Frank foundation thing her in Boise? How about the Boise Broncos football team?

The standard of living in Boise is awesome! Nice new homes everywhere! Skiing at The Basin, Sunvalley, The Foothills! It's America at its best, not the garbage dumps of Jersey.

Not only that, the general morality is awesome in Boise. 65% Republican & very God fearing.

[ May 15, 2005, 09:20 AM: Message edited by: jon_j_rambo ]

[JerseyJohn]

Brother Rambo,

No one -- NO ONE! -- is defending either Hitler or the Nazis or Stalin and his policies that resulted in the deaths of tens of millions of his own people (who he had a paranoid contempt for) or the Japanese polices that also resulted in the deaths of tens of millions (anywhere from 15-25,000,000) of Chinese, Manchurians, Filipinos, Koreans and other groups).

Where it genuinely becomes insulting is you place the blame for things on entire nationalities of people. There's no need for that and it really is very bad.

The slaughter that went on in Europe and Asia is undeniable, but there was always that same lunatic element in every country, including the United States. If the techonology had existed in the 19th century it's a sure bet it would have been turned against the American Plains Indians.

It's always wrong to paint the soldiers of one country as being full of virtue and those of another as being the mindless minions of evil. Things are never that simple. We've gone out of our way to prove that in all our own wars since 1945.

It's fine to be proud of the Americans who fought in our wars, fine. I'm proud of them and I'm also proud of the miniscule role I played in uniform even during what I consider to have been the wrong war for the wrong reason in the wrong place at the wrong time.

But don't dump on the people who served for other countries, friend and former foe alike. When you do that you dump on everybody.

[JerseyJohn]

The standard of living in Boise is awesome! Nice new homes everywhere! Skiing at The Basin, Sunvalley, The Foothills! It's America at its best, not the garbage dumps of Jersey. [/QB]

Don't bother posting to me anymore.

You're a waste of time.

[jon_j_rambo]

@Sir Jersey --- Looks like you're in one of your moods. You insult Boise, but can't take it back your direction. Take a chill pill.

[jon_j_rambo]

By the way, to anybody that doesn't know. Idaho is famous for its potatoes (see McDonald's fries) & New Jersey is famous for its garbage industry. Lets not forget those beautiful (sarcasim) casinos of Atlantic City. Go for a walk in Boise on a Saturday you won't look over your shoulder...now in Jersey, that's something you wouldn't even consider.