The Green Man comes back with a vengeance !!! AAR Terif (allies) - Hellraiser(axis)

[hellraiser]

Army and corps that counterattacked last turn were wiped out by armour, army, para and 3 LFs.

Now I know why I sucked so royally the games before ... I forgot about buying destroyed units back at half price ...OMFG

[Blashy]

ROFL Hellraiser, no kidding.

[Terif]

December 1, 1940:

Christmas gets closer, so Allies kill a german army to celebrate it...UK tank in action, but unfortunately now has good chances getting wiped out too. German tank down to str 3.

[hellraiser]

Terif says yo uget the discount for the destroyed units if the kille dunits had 5 or more supply...well an army of mine met its fate in low supply and paratroopers will follow

UK tank destroyed though.

Romania joined in November.

[Terif]

Dezember 29, 1940:

German Paratrooper eradicated - but UK forces are also at the end of their fighting capabilities...only a few corps and an army left.

The last UK forces move forward through the gap and bravely attack a german AF positioned too close at the front.

[Terif]

February 23, 1941:

Only 1 tank, 3 AFs and 2 HQs left of the once proud german Wehrmacht in Egypt. Italian´s take over the lead .

But Allies are also broken and even can´t reinforce their units any more - army only to 5 reinforced due to lack of mpps...so the last days of the defenders have come and Allies prepare to evacuate.

[hellraiser]

YEAH YEAH ...even if I lose a leg and an arm I WILL TAKE that pesky Egypt.

Army landed, 4th LF operated.

UK army killed, 2 corps encircled.

[Terif]

April 6, 1941:

Yep, the end of Egypt: The last 3 UK corps kill the cut off german tank that broke through the defence line, but Alexandria garrison had to leave town after UK air failed to finish off the str 2 tank. So Egypt will fall next turn.

Royal Navy retreats towards Malta, but finds a hungarian corps transport on the way to Tobruk - shot down to str 4.

[hellraiser]

NO NO

Egypt will fall anyway but german commander decide to bomb Cairo port (i guess that is) so UK HQ can't escape thru the loop.

[Terif]

May 4, 1941:

Only a last UK corps left defending Alexandria and the HQ sitting in Cairo - minor naval battle at Tobruk as an italian battleship enters port to attack UK fleet.

[John DiFool the 2nd]

Hmm I wonder if this will be a Pyrrhic victory for the Axis-seems to me to be a lot of effort and time expended on a campaign which doesn't do much to knock out a major power (tho a Sealion now would eliminate Britain). We shall see...

[hellraiser]

RN cruiser sunk by italian AF from el agheila.

Carrier hit by italian BB down to 1 and incompetent LF cannot finish it off. That carrier won't make it to England, I swear it. A lot of RN ships travel to Gibraltar fearing an ambush at the loop exit by german Navy

[Terif]

June 1, 1941:

Yes, german navy was obviously waiting for the returning fleet at Suez loop - with only 2 ships able to return per turn, they would have been sitting ducks. So admirality decided to let the fleet fight their way back via Malta .

Italians get a few last hits from the UK defenders, but next turn it should be it for UK definately.

[Terif]

June 29, 1941:

German and italian AFs operate to Sicily in the attempt to get Royal Navy before they can reach the save port of Gibraltar.

On their way back, UK fleets discover an italian transport trying to block the escape - despite stormy weather it gets wiped out immediately .

[Blashy]

If a unit has a supply of 0 and gets killed that is when you can not buy it back cheaper. It is gone forever, wiped out.

I did the ALL out defense of Egypt in one game, it worked well for me as most of the Axis units did not have time to make it back for Barbarossa, they were 2 turns behind the initial offensive. In the end it helped out.

[hellraiser]

Axis capture Alexandria and knock uk HQ in Cairo down to 2.

West of Malta, after my spotter was smoked by the RN, another spotter moves in clearing the fog for BB Roma (new aquisition from the queue) a fresh unit that hits a carrier from 8 to 3. A LF from sicily kills off another carrier (that carrier I swore to sink )

Raiders take a heavy toll on allied shipping.

UK kinda battered after the huge mpp drain from Egypt.

Axis bought Manstein. A HQ from Africa sailed to Europe. Barbarossa may have some surprises though...despite the terrible losses and time lost in Egypt and cash used for transporting, Axis is not that weak as some would like to believe

[hellraiser]

Game postponed till the next evening.

[Liam]

JESUS H on a bicycle, what do you get from Egypt? 2 ports, 3 cities HR?

I know you inflicted heavy damage but he doesn't even have to fight Normandy now, he inflicted far more damage in Egypt. With Malta effect and the need to garrison Egypt it's likely you'll never regain those losses... Only hope is that Axis Navy is Now Dominate and somehow or another can perform a Sea Lion. I think such a dedication to Egypt by Axis was foolish!

Be better to just halt and take Vichy-Tunisia-Greece-Yugoslavia... USSR will not take on Germany and Germany will be -Many Ground Units needed...

Anyways, Egypt was a glorious sounding campaign. Not like those I've experienced. UK had some teeth.. Sounds as if you could've easily taken the UK instead of Engaging Egypt?

Originally posted by hellraiser:

Axis capture Alexandria and knock uk HQ in Cairo down to 2.

West of Malta, after my spotter was smoked by the RN, another spotter moves in clearing the fog for BB Roma (new aquisition from the queue) a fresh unit that hits a carrier from 8 to 3. A LF from sicily kills off another carrier (that carrier I swore to sink )

Raiders take a heavy toll on allied shipping.

UK kinda battered after the huge mpp drain from Egypt.

Axis bought Manstein. A HQ from Africa sailed to Europe. Barbarossa may have some surprises though...despite the terrible losses and time lost in Egypt and cash used for transporting, Axis is not that weak as some would like to believe

[Liam]

Originally posted by Blashy:

If a unit has a supply of 0 and gets killed that is when you can not buy it back cheaper. It is gone forever, wiped out.

I did the ALL out defense of Egypt in one game, it worked well for me as most of the Axis units did not have time to make it back for Barbarossa, they were 2 turns behind the initial offensive. In the end it helped out.

LOL, I still haven't read the manual... I offer something else up, 2 HQs linked offer more supply to those out of supply. so my friends no more worries about being out of supply in the middle of nowhere at least you'll have some if you know how to use an HQ as an actual Supply Source

Ought oh enough secrets, figure it yourself

[hellraiser]

"Sounds as if you could've easily taken the UK instead of Engaging Egypt?"

UK continues to fight in Egypt even after a succesful Sea Lion.

Well, atually Sealion and Egypt can be done more or less simultaneously but that depends on the enemy, right?

Difficult campaign in Egypt - it will always be if allies decide to defend there with all their forces The costs were collosal for both sides but bot sides achieved what they wanted after all : Terif wanted me to spend cash and be delayed, I wanted Egypt LOL

Now who said Barbarossa was a good plan for 1941 anyway?

Leaving the joke aside - Germany retains quite a punch - can't be bothered by communists in the first year anyway, I think.

@Liam -> 'I think such a dedication to Egypt by Axis was foolish!'

Well I really do not think so. Leaving Mid east at allied mercy ain't a good ideea. Iraq has oil, 2 cities, port ... Iran is empty with 1 city only, Syria , connection with USSR, Caucasus to name a few reasons why Axis need Egypt.

OTOH after 2 openings played against Condor when I was learning to play Poland/France campaign (played with my ass rather than my brainz) and some turns played against Sombra - this is my first game as Axis to go this far. I don't know an optimal strategy, I may do a lot of mistakes, I am learning the game as you do, guys. Heck, even Yoda learns now LOL.

[Terif]

Yep - time to learn the war in practice

But Hellraiser is right:

Axis is better off not allowing Allies to keep Egypt. This will give them Syria, Iraq and Iran too - that Axis can conquer instead. Additionally they will surely not sit on their back if they have enough forces gathered there for defence, but conquer the italian parts of Africa too and then threaten the whole Med throuhout the game which will lead to a lot of ressources Axis will have to spend for guard units there.

Sealion at the beginning of the game is no option for Axis as long as Egypt is allied, since this brings USA and Russia in - even after conquering Egypt the question remains if it is worth knocking out the last UK resort and bringing both heavy weights in the game - probably even during the operation when most of the axis forces are busy in England.

@Blashy:

Axis has more than enough time to conquer Egypt and still prepare for Barbarossa - as long as they don´t neglect their russian border units . I guess that´s what happened in your games, since with the proper garrisons at Königsberg and Warsaw, Russia will stay out of the war till around 1942 - if Axis needs till then to conquer Egypt, then they definitely did some things wrong .

Many players will surely forget to keep the right amount of units - in 1941 there is an additional guard unit needed - at the russian border, just like in SC 1 at the beginning .

[Terif]

Forgot to mention - we use the following house rules:

1. no blocking of neutrals and no neutrals blocking active powers (by purpose)

2. USA not allowed to move transports or ships away from its coast before going at war

3. USSR not allowed to move transports or ships in the baltic before beeing at war

Blashy mentioned there is a cost of using neutrals (especially USA) to spot subs and block units. But reduced readiness due to staying long at see and since UK can´t supply the neutrals ships can easily be avoided by simply moving them back to their home country after finishing their task and disembark them. This way they can also reinforce their lost str points due to storms at sea and their country is still defended if the enenmy tries an invasion. Naturally the capital should never be left empty to avoid the enemy from declaring war and catching it by surprise . So the only real cost of using neutrals as blockers/spotters are the transport costs of 10% of the unit value which is not enough to keep anyone from doing it - therefore it needs house rules.

[hellraiser]

Hehe ... I placed 3 units from '40 just to be sure... koenigsberg, warsaw and one unit on the tile east of warsaw -> I hope the deployment is ok, I haven't noticed massive USSR readiness increase so far. It is spring 41 and they are at like, 42 or something.

Regarding finishing off UK -> yes that is a strategy.

Axis attack egypt and by the time Cairo is about to fall, launch the Sealion. Task is more easy if allies lost a lot of RN and ground troops in Egypt. But this is an option you must take in the beggining of the game - it means no tech investment and buying troops like mad -> USSR will enter the war and you will need a safe border in east -> armies and corps supported should hold back the soviets until you knock out UK. Without UK, D-Day will be a distand dream and Axis will only face Russia. Axis will assume a defensive stance, completing some minors, upgrading techs, buyin troops and in 1942 or 43 can start the offensive in Russia. They will only need Moscow though to win the game

I told Terif about this option but I decided to go for the long game although the SL option had a lot of sense. We need in depth exploration of the game mechanics and need to see every aspects so we are able to draw a conclusion whether the game is balanced for H2H or not.

Game is a long way from being decided. I think Terif played very well the allies so far, gave me a lot of troubles. Being my first major H2H encounter as Axis I am trying to figure things out on the spot. I have several objectives in mind in the long run but I am 101% Terif will have his word on that as well. We all know from SC 1 what a biatch Yoda can be when he means business

[Liam]

That pesky Manual, says all you need is 2 units on the russian border in both cities. That's why I keep getting RR climb on me. Hell

BTW: Game sounded wild. You'd need an extra 7 months to recover from that Campaign in Egypt

[hellraiser]

Yep, I will need some time to recover - but I will be able to attack Russia though. I will just need to be selective on the objectives

UK was also battered during Egypt campaign - lost land units (ok they get them back at half price) but those ships will probably be lost forever and some of them reinforced for great cash.

Really there is no other way to get Egypt if allies commit 3/4 of the british empire forces to defence. Obviously Axis will spend a lot to get that sand , it's just natural

Anyway Terif's all out defence of Egypt and the massive RN involvement have a price. The Atlantic is more or less german held now - got several surface vessels and submarines patrolling the seas. RN will have to be very lucky or very cautious to get to England in good shape or will just have to stay near Gibraltar for a long time

Meanwhile raiders steal a lot of cash - 14-18 mpps per turn is a lot now that UK will be driven from Africa losing 3 cities and 2 ports.