dicedtomato Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 Commonwealth units should be allowed the same tech upgrades as British units. Three reasons why: 1. CW forces in Europe tended to have the same equipment as UK forces. 2. The Australians, New Zealanders (and Indians, who strangely are not included in SC2) were considered elite. The Canadians were less so, but certainly no worse than British troops. 3. The best reason for allowing upgrades: it gives Britain teeth. The UK is a punching bag for the first half of the game, and Tech Zero CW troops aren't much help. Three additional CW corps upgraded to IW1 would give the British a fighting chance in Africa. Before anyone tries to argue that the Axis should get the same benefit, don't bother. Italy, Romania and Hungary fought the war with their own ((often World War I era equipment). DT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dicedtomato Posted June 12, 2006 Author Share Posted June 12, 2006 Commonwealth units should be allowed the same tech upgrades as British units. Three reasons why: 1. CW forces in Europe tended to have the same equipment as UK forces. 2. The Australians, New Zealanders (and Indians, who strangely are not included in SC2) were considered elite. The Canadians were less so, but certainly no worse than British troops. 3. The best reason for allowing upgrades: it gives Britain teeth. The UK is a punching bag for the first half of the game, and Tech Zero CW troops aren't much help. Three additional CW corps upgraded to IW1 would give the British a fighting chance in Africa. Before anyone tries to argue that the Axis should get the same benefit, don't bother. Italy, Romania and Hungary fought the war with their own ((often World War I era equipment). DT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 Indians arrive if you get too close to Amman IIRC, and are otherwise included in "normal" British units. but yes, CW forces were equipped to British standards. The change to CW units being "allied minor" units and having a HQ of their own is non-sensical. As it always was for the Canadians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 Indians arrive if you get too close to Amman IIRC, and are otherwise included in "normal" British units. but yes, CW forces were equipped to British standards. The change to CW units being "allied minor" units and having a HQ of their own is non-sensical. As it always was for the Canadians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exel Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 All minors should benefit from the tech gains of the majors. Imho the best solution would be to give a minor a tech level one lower than that of its parent major. So if Germany achieves Advanced Fighers Lvl3, Finland would be granted Advanced Fighters Lvl2. History backs it up. Your example of the Commonwealth goes for the Allies, but similarly for the Axis Finland and Romania were major importers of German (and partly Italian) weapons. Finland operated StuGs, Messerschmitts, Panzerfausts and -schreks among others. Similarly Romania operated StuGs and Panzer III and IV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exel Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 All minors should benefit from the tech gains of the majors. Imho the best solution would be to give a minor a tech level one lower than that of its parent major. So if Germany achieves Advanced Fighers Lvl3, Finland would be granted Advanced Fighters Lvl2. History backs it up. Your example of the Commonwealth goes for the Allies, but similarly for the Axis Finland and Romania were major importers of German (and partly Italian) weapons. Finland operated StuGs, Messerschmitts, Panzerfausts and -schreks among others. Similarly Romania operated StuGs and Panzer III and IV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Spinello Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 I like Exel´s idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Spinello Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 I like Exel´s idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolend Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 Yep I agree with Exel as well except that I would give CW troops the same lavel as English tech as the 'common' in CW says it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolend Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 Yep I agree with Exel as well except that I would give CW troops the same lavel as English tech as the 'common' in CW says it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dicedtomato Posted June 12, 2006 Author Share Posted June 12, 2006 Giving a lot of German tech to Axis Allies is a bad idea for a couple of reasons: 1. Ahistorical. A few German Lend-Lease Stugs and Me-109s are insignificant on SC2's strategic level. If Germany reaches IW3 in 1942, then the whole Romanian Army should not be upgraded to IW2. Remember that the Axis Allies were allied in name only. They frequently hated and distrusted each other. The CW units are different because they really were integrated into the British military. 2. The last thing the Axis need is more help. The last thing Russia needs is a half-dozen Axis Allied units that are higher tech than the Red Army. DT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dicedtomato Posted June 12, 2006 Author Share Posted June 12, 2006 Giving a lot of German tech to Axis Allies is a bad idea for a couple of reasons: 1. Ahistorical. A few German Lend-Lease Stugs and Me-109s are insignificant on SC2's strategic level. If Germany reaches IW3 in 1942, then the whole Romanian Army should not be upgraded to IW2. Remember that the Axis Allies were allied in name only. They frequently hated and distrusted each other. The CW units are different because they really were integrated into the British military. 2. The last thing the Axis need is more help. The last thing Russia needs is a half-dozen Axis Allied units that are higher tech than the Red Army. DT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 Yes and no. Firstly it would not be automatic - the axis minors would have to buy their upgrades like everyone else. Secondly it DID hapen - especially for airforces - Me-109G's were the main fighters in virtually all Axis minor airforces by 1944. Thirdly it needs play balance - it is unfortunate that he actual characteristics of the Eastern Front are not well represented, such as the inability of Axis minors to work together to the extent that htey had to hav an Italian army placed betwen them in 1942!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 Yes and no. Firstly it would not be automatic - the axis minors would have to buy their upgrades like everyone else. Secondly it DID hapen - especially for airforces - Me-109G's were the main fighters in virtually all Axis minor airforces by 1944. Thirdly it needs play balance - it is unfortunate that he actual characteristics of the Eastern Front are not well represented, such as the inability of Axis minors to work together to the extent that htey had to hav an Italian army placed betwen them in 1942!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dicedtomato Posted June 13, 2006 Author Share Posted June 13, 2006 Think about this. If the Germans usually had better tech than the Russians and Americans, and the Axis Allies were only one tech level lower than the Germans, than the Axis Allies should have equal tech to the Soviets/US. Now imagine a Romanian corps fighting a Soviet or American corps in 1944. Think it would be a fair fight? Tech in SC2 in abstract, but it's more than whatever new weapon is rolling out of the Krupp and Messerschmitt factories that week. It's more about advanced radios, better trucks, and new tactics. Life sucked in WWII if you were a small power. You didn't have the resources to produce equipment or to develop new ones. The Allies had enough equipment for the CW forces, which were an integral part of the British military. Germany didn't have enough trucks for its own military. You think Hitler was going to send lots of them to Hungary? Yes, the Axis Allies got Panzer-IVs and Me-109s - just in time to be pulverized by the JS-III and the Yak-9. If you insist on giving German tech to their allies, it should be at least two levels less (but not less than zero). DT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dicedtomato Posted June 13, 2006 Author Share Posted June 13, 2006 Think about this. If the Germans usually had better tech than the Russians and Americans, and the Axis Allies were only one tech level lower than the Germans, than the Axis Allies should have equal tech to the Soviets/US. Now imagine a Romanian corps fighting a Soviet or American corps in 1944. Think it would be a fair fight? Tech in SC2 in abstract, but it's more than whatever new weapon is rolling out of the Krupp and Messerschmitt factories that week. It's more about advanced radios, better trucks, and new tactics. Life sucked in WWII if you were a small power. You didn't have the resources to produce equipment or to develop new ones. The Allies had enough equipment for the CW forces, which were an integral part of the British military. Germany didn't have enough trucks for its own military. You think Hitler was going to send lots of them to Hungary? Yes, the Axis Allies got Panzer-IVs and Me-109s - just in time to be pulverized by the JS-III and the Yak-9. If you insist on giving German tech to their allies, it should be at least two levels less (but not less than zero). DT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 Who says they would be 1 lvl lower? why not 2 as you suggest, or even 3? And who says the Germans always have better tech than the Sov's anyway? Basically the tech system is broken - the British don't get anywhere near enough MPP's to develop all the tech they actually did develop - Durign the war they had jet fighters, heavy bombers, advanced ASW, level 1 or 2 submarines, advanced infantry weapons, maxed out Anti-tank, andti-aircraft, intel, amphibious and maybe 1 or 2 others I can't think of right now. when was the last time you saw UK that advanced in SC2? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 Who says they would be 1 lvl lower? why not 2 as you suggest, or even 3? And who says the Germans always have better tech than the Sov's anyway? Basically the tech system is broken - the British don't get anywhere near enough MPP's to develop all the tech they actually did develop - Durign the war they had jet fighters, heavy bombers, advanced ASW, level 1 or 2 submarines, advanced infantry weapons, maxed out Anti-tank, andti-aircraft, intel, amphibious and maybe 1 or 2 others I can't think of right now. when was the last time you saw UK that advanced in SC2? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fartknock3r Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 Ive been able to get strong ASW, Amphibious, and air tech. (Advanced air, Bombers, Long-Range) But thats pretty much it. Oh and ive been able to get intel to about 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fartknock3r Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 Ive been able to get strong ASW, Amphibious, and air tech. (Advanced air, Bombers, Long-Range) But thats pretty much it. Oh and ive been able to get intel to about 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dicedtomato Posted June 13, 2006 Author Share Posted June 13, 2006 Sorry, Stalin's Organist (love that name). Exel said the Axis Allies should be one tech level less than the Germans. I can live with two or three levels less. The tech system has problems (too variable), but the real issue is that the UK is broken. DT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dicedtomato Posted June 13, 2006 Author Share Posted June 13, 2006 Sorry, Stalin's Organist (love that name). Exel said the Axis Allies should be one tech level less than the Germans. I can live with two or three levels less. The tech system has problems (too variable), but the real issue is that the UK is broken. DT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 Fart - exactly - you haven't been able to do it. Diced - thanks Sorry - I missed that you were talking about Exel's post. I think 1 is fine for IW, AT, Mech and gunnery radar since they are limited to 2 or 3 max, and 2 for all the others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 Fart - exactly - you haven't been able to do it. Diced - thanks Sorry - I missed that you were talking about Exel's post. I think 1 is fine for IW, AT, Mech and gunnery radar since they are limited to 2 or 3 max, and 2 for all the others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fartknock3r Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 I think US and Uk should share their tech. But if this were to happen then it would have to be playtested. Canada should also share the same tech. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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