Taojah vs Liam, Vengeance Weapons

[Liam]

Now as the World Savour I take the reigns of the battered nation of Great Britian and France to destroy the Great Continental Opressor, Germany!

1939: Poland is gone along with Denmark. Suprised, the Royal Navy is struck a deadly blow losing a Carrier and Amphibious Corps on their way to Norway. Although 2 German Cruisers are lost, a bloody opening to what shall be a very blood game?

in the West, 1940

These Germans take their time, That is fine, we shall reinforce and assert our Political Dominance, something that the Germans have not mastered, Iraq leans toward the British Cause, these MPPs will replace those lost fighting in the Baltic

Also Benelux is assualted in June as well as France... this is atrocity that will not go unanswered. Enhanced French Armor engages German Armor at the Border with Belgium, nearly destroying 2 Panzers! :mad: Don't mess with Us Frogs, we'll show you how to build Tanks Mr. Fritz

Even despite these early exploits and some air battles over the English Channel, Nothing gained, German forces roll over the rest of the French Defenders, taking little or no damage... Paris will fall in late Summer

Vive La France!!! The French were instrumental in saving the Allied Cause, inflicting heavy damage upon the Kriegsmarine and damaging and destroying U-Boats... Along with American Spies, perhaps we have a new Ally there

In the Mediterreanan, Italy is seen as the Fascist Sympathizing Dictatorship, blockading the RN... We simply use the loop

[jon_j_rambo]

That a kid, givem' Hell (Heaven), son.

[TaoJah]

Yes, I managed to get Noray with the Axis...

Instead of attacking full-force in Poland, Low Countries and France, I decided to take take some units away on turn one and go to Norway : I took it on turn four, the same turn that the Allies can take it. Except that the Axis play before the Allied, so I got Norway, hehe.

A scout-plane in Denmark had to make sure that the Allied didn't have ships in front of Norway in turn 4, so I knew the coast was clear.

On top of that, I could see a clear pat towards the amphibian transporter, so I sank it with a sub... The sub survived the next turn and was adjacent to a carrier, so I sacrificed two cruisers to sink the carrier. Not a bad deal, I think.

Due to the fact that I could not use al my forces in France, I lost one tank there. That will cost 125 MPP to rebuild, which is much lower then the MPP gain from Norway coming to me instead of to the UK.

And yes, I let the UK (and France) have diplo hits in Iraq. My German troops will convince them who they belong to !!!

[Liam]

1940:

After Paris has Fallen and the Main battle has moved to Brest and Egypt...

Another German Panzer pays dearly for pushing itself too far away from supply and too far away from it's lines, these new Blitzkrieg tactics are being shunned in the GHC, it survives at strength 1 outside of Brest with several Air and Naval bombardments... Lucky little Tank!

In Egypt, Axis think they will take the front, but instead O'Conner leads the charge, "Charge of the Light Brigade," British Armor just a hex from Axis air, headcracks a German HQ... If there are no reserves this could be a route out of Egypt for the Axis, we're not quite sure of their force ratio quite yet.

Tunisia Has Fallen! Vile Italians, Betraying their French Comrades by stealing their old Colony...

all over the Front lots of Action, little skirmishes, very busy early rounds for British fighting the Mighty German Horde along with their Italian Buddies

[Liam]

End of 1940:

it's been a long and grinding war, UK Subs and Bombers based at Malta have cut Afrika Corps supply lines. There are several Hardcore Axis Units in the Egyptian Desert and they're being slowly dismembered by O'Connor's elite Desert Units! The RAF comes out in force to show both the Luftwaffe and the Italian Airforce whose boss...

There is no supply and no hope for Axis forces, just half a million of them baking in the desert out of ammunition and out of food, some even dying of thirst surrending in the tens of thousands to British and New Zealanders all across the DMZ

It is rumoured that Fuhrer himself is personally taking charge of the situation before it should get out of hand and will fly to North Africa to review the situation and access the need for more resources to destroy the British and their Allies. Allied Ships contend with the Italian Navy which hasn't been as deadly as it could have been.. Also Axis air has been misplaced and misused to truly damage the outnumbered British.

Regardless of this, England stands alone, the USA and USSR have not entered the war and things are not easy by any means. Germany has overspent on this Egyptian Venture, we're hoping this should mean that she has no resources to do any further damage to the British Isles or It's territories, luckily their are also 2 less German Cruisers, an early German Blunder!

Game must go on, despite the throws of Randomness

[Liam]

Alright Taojah,

You have been caught up in my famous Egyptian Defense...

So far I think that Germany has lost the game morally and literally in Egypt and I do not think their will be a recovery, am I right?

Al Alemein has held pretty much in a historical sense, however no senseless British offensives have been necessary. With that Fortress and the 3 entrenchment rule it makes it impossible for a Land Invasion without Massive air to take it out!

I have absorbed 4 or 5 land attacks, KO's most of the Italian Fleet and I notice Tao is fixated on getting his objective, much like I use to be with Egypt like it's a timetable. With the Malta Effect he is getting really really dreadful supply so the only alternative here is Long Range Fighters or an alternate path in. Syria... possibly just forgoing the whole bloody affair...

German forces can turn to Tunisia Algeria, and pocket those MPPs if a Egypt Invasion Fails, making their trip not a fruitless one then turn around and take Egypt when the Supply goes back up...

Just naming some suggestions as one of my first games I had 0 supply for some time with the Malta effect, real fun! A little ahistorical..

Forgot to mention, with the cost in USSR and USA readiness is Egypt even worth it? It's not like Iraq has a full Supply Oil Field! Perhaps your energy would be better spent elsewhere!

[TaoJah]

Originally posted by Liam:

Alright Taojah,

You have been caught up in my famous Egyptian Defense...

Your defence ? Defence ??? Nononononoooo... What I am caught with is another fine example of the you-got-bad-luck-you-lose-muuhaahaaaa feature of this game.

It's mid 1941 and despite *5* chits in IW SINCE 1939 I don't got IW3 yet. And of course, EVERY OTHER TURN (this is not an exaggeration ladies and gentleman, it's LITARLY every other turn) I get hit with the Malta effect.

I can't reinforce my troops in Egype, I can't operate new troops in. I am THIS close to simply stop HvH due to my this way too important luck factor in the game.

I bet that 3/4 of the games are resolved by pure luck, the luck factor in this game is too high. And yes "luck evens out over several games" : I win games where I got good luck. But what is the fun in that ??? What's the fun of playing a game where you just know you'll lose when you got bad luck and know that you'll win when you have good luck ?

SCII is not a strategic wargame, it's a dice game : you throw well, you win, you throw bad, you lose.

[SeaMonkey]

Well now, the real TJ reveals himself, a man of grievances.

Don't fret, you've got plenty of company.

[TaoJah]

Originally posted by SeaMonkey:

Well now, the real TJ reveals himself, a man of grievances.

Yes, I admit, I am a liiiiiiittle bit angry at all this It's such a good game otherwise

[Liam]

Heh, Play Poker, that is the only place where I lose it!

YOU must becareful with the Malta Effect, and in my game vs Terif, 2 chits in 1939, 4 in 1940, all throughout, wasn't till Fall of '40 that I recall getting a hit!!!!!!

We all get luck, but by Barby in June of '41 I was IW3

Good to research Intel, and leech of your opponent!!!

On top of it, do not go into N.Africa with such crappy supply, use Syria!!! It's worth the Readiness hit... Either that or use the Center city of Italian North Africa for Air Supply and research LR early to kill units deep in Egypt, then Amphib the Coast and kamikaze the Italian Navy all over the Coastal Cities and Ports

that or Forgo the North African Invasion and take Scandanavia, you've got a direct supply, add up the MPPs it costed to get into Egypt! Add up what you'd make in 150 turns!

Also, don't research IW only, research Heavy Tanks and if one favors first, buy Tanks and not Infantry! Also Research with Italy, so you get a second chance there, research Intel and watch and see if the opponent is researching Land Techs, if not, maybe back off and wait till you go all in... Research Air Techs or some other wonder weapon, Germany can win with IW2 and that is very doable if Russia, USA and UK all have it and she has intel and only 1 chit in IW...but a crapload of units

[ April 13, 2007, 10:18 PM: Message edited by: Liam ]

[Konigs]

In my game against The "K" man, I had terrible supply, had a large German army and Airplanes diown there, instead of retreating them out and using them in Russia they ended up being wasted, I should have adapted and went stonger some where else, gotta be able to roll with the punches.

I hope we do not really believe luck wins all games, how could you explain all of Terif's wins and others impressive records, you Bro Rambo. Shoot, Bromley has pounded me in several Mirror matches, and I have out teched him a couple of times and still lost.. Just my two cents worth..

[Terif]

Luck doesn´t determine who wins the game - it only determines which strategies to use . Of course you run into problems if you insist to use the same strategy every time no matter which circumstances. But luck/random factors can handicap just your prefered strategy...as long as you stay flesible and change it when necessary according to the situation, luck is no deciding factor in SC2 .

Some tips (while Liam already stated some possibilites ):

- Malta effect starts in August 1940, so if you send your troops before this time you will have full supply and the ability to operate in any case

- if Tobruk (or other cities) is already reduced to zero, then just place your HQ in the fortress itself (here supply is always minimum 1 at the start of your turn) and it will have full supply so units up to 2 tiles away can be reinforced also to full strength. Your air can reach Alexandria from Tobruk and your units get their combat value mainly from HQ support, their own strength points and can also use the 25% readiness boost from attacking before moving, i.e. have minimum 75% readiness in battle, usually more.

- Infantry weapons level 3 are nice to have but no game breaker if you don´t have it. If you don´t have it (but the enemy has...) you only should reduce/slow down your aggressive advancements (i.e. no spearheads too far into enemy territory), keep your units together and more rely on your air to decrease the enemies morale and readiness first before you attack. Then it doesn´t matter if you have IW 1,2 or 3. The enemy units will still be killed, you may need more own units to do that, but since you have lower tech your units are cheaper and should stay closer together, so you have those additional units .

Summary:

Don´t despair because of random/luck effects - just think how you can use the new situation to your advantage and which measures and strategies under these new premises are better or necessary now. Random/luck effects never determine for itself the outcome of the game, they force you to (re-) think about your strategies and never be lazy. If you do that, everything will become allright .

[SeaMonkey]

Thanks Terif, that "Summary:" applies to the stock market and life in general also.

All you downtrodden, "Listen Up!"

[Terif]

[Liam]

Terif is good to listen to when it comes to SC2, I have won Roughly 17 out of 20 Allied Sided Games due to his advice and improved my Axis chances as well. I doubt this is luck!

VS Terif now, I have never won with Allies but playing him showed me that they can really concede a lot and win. I just haven't learnt the conversion chart for the other way around for Axis. It's tough to play the Axis in SC2 in the patches, you really must be innovative and know your scripts. Little puny mistakes means the game longterm, even if only psychological defeat. Allies can usually afford a lot of losses. Rambo, Iron Ranger, HellRaiser all great teachers and fellow students!

[Liam]

1941

Barbarossa kicks off but instead of seeing 3 million Germans kill USSR, they repell a puny corps of Germans and aside from losing Riga, the entirety of the Red Bear is in tact!

In Egypt, the Germans bring in the heavy artillery, as mentioned earlier the Fuhrer took personal control of the situation in North Afrika, due to this, 100,000 Germans will go home in body bags.

All of The 4 Axis Fighters or so in N.Afrika with several armies... All repelled at Al Alemein. The Fort has been impenetrable thus far by all Axis attempts including Spies! Hundreds of thousands of Axis troops are in a do or die struggle there to take the Impenetrable Fortress Egypt! The RAF, battles it out with the Superior Luftwaffe wreaking havoc on everything sent at them. Winston Churchill is quoted as saying, "never has so many owed so much to so few!" Egypt Will Remain Free, as a Commonwealth of the Greater Good Prosperity of England!

In Iran, Russian Armor moves in for the kill..

In Spain, Axis forces angry due to their losses in Egypt go on the offensive, Transfered British Troops attempt to help the Besieged Capitol of Madrid and a new found Ally, Franco...

Yugoslavia is DOWed and falls to Axis forces

It's starting to heat up

[TaoJah]

Originally posted by Konigs:

In my game against The "K" man, I had terrible supply, had a large German army and Airplanes diown there

Well, I couldn't move a huge army down there : Tobruk was hit to zero with the Malta effect right after Italy joined. It remained under 5 for a year...

So I had to walk my armies and fly my planes east from Algiers, but that's a long walk... The result was that I lost three units in Africa and ALOT of turns... So my Barbarossa is delayed (I only took Riga) and -worse- the Russians can get Iran, Iraq and Syria before I get there with the Germans. Yuck.

[Liam]

The situation isn't so bleak now, Axis have good tech and now are finally taking Egypt on the verge of 1942. They have Norway and still have Swedish Ore... Once the MiddleEast falls to the Axis they should have the iniative for awhile at least

[Liam]

The Year of Our King, 1942 and a few pence:

The Germans Assualt the Neutrality of Sweden, Greece and Syria into the Axis Empire. Iran is freed from such a fate by peaceloving Russian freedom Fighters in the Mountains after a long march.

The Great Battle of the Baltic States has begun. Dozens of Frontline Armies and corps on both sides clash, there seems to be no real winner, however, several more German Casualties and a strategic Withdrawl by the Soviet armed forces show things will go on... The Germans are not dead in the water yet not sure what they may have left in their arsenal, but this will make or break this game... 10-15 Armies and Tanks on either side probably in the fighting zone within the next several turns, and within the Summer/Fall the decision of Winner

[TaoJah]

Hmmm, let's see if I can do this too, write some propaganda message that has little connection to reality...

"The fierce German armies take Sweden, Syria, Portugal and Greece in a sweeping motion, leaving the Allies wondering what happened. All ground troops are back in time for the Great Battle of the Baltic States were the Russians are driven back, trading land for peace. Little do they know of what's coming !

The first reports of German's new weapon are also coming in : the Russian that were assaulted by the German airforce crawled back to their shelters, mumbling things about an overwhelming number of planes attacking from everywhere."

I am terrible at this, lol.

[Liam]

I'm quite shocked at the level of German Strength on the frontlines in the USSR, if they hadn't stuck their head out so far to nearly get it cut off I would've been a little more afraid. Though I have known that you're a lot of places and the USSR can go on the offensive, even my air can fly and not worry. Egypt wasn't worth it. I think your next game you might say hell with it, take 2/3rds of the USSR with the same effort and time and then take Egypt later in the game maybe? or England instead!

You're in Spain-Syria-Iraq soon-Sweden and I see extensive defensive units in France you don't need because I'm in no position to take it. You need to recon better Taojah... of course you're a cautious player and a strong one... You let me have the iniative and in this game unless you have a superweapon, the Reds with no losses can completely destroy Germany, I am making more as USSR, I've got more units soon, and better tech..

In my notorious games that go into a longhaul Barby, you will see A LOT of Red units with a good player, they're like Ants... And in #s they're deadly.. You gotta stomp em before they get too high in #s or you're dead as Germany.

By the way in luck, talking about it... I had a game just now, 1 in 20 of my games where an attack failed... That's pretty awful, but the breaks! Guess what though, I got lucky in tech and will probably get repaid the losses of MPPs due to the early Gambit I tried. It was a Norwegian attack, failed. Though I got Iraqi Oil with 2 chits for UK, so I'm smiling otherwise that would be the pits!

Luck does push you off your game, somtimes gamble when you get unlucky like your Malta, if you feel you'll lose perhaps it'll take the pressure off if you get luck to replace a little misfortune! Because I really was worried in this game! Thank the Dice!

P.S. Germany cannot run a late Barbarossa, something I've found, just doesn't work! I have never fair'd well in my late game Barbarossa's EVER and I have never seen anyone else do it either.

Originally posted by TaoJah:

Hmmm, let's see if I can do this too, write some propaganda message that has little connection to reality...

"The fierce German armies take Sweden, Syria, Portugal and Greece in a sweeping motion, leaving the Allies wondering what happened. All ground troops are back in time for the Great Battle of the Baltic States were the Russians are driven back, trading land for peace. Little do they know of what's coming !

The first reports of German's new weapon are also coming in : the Russian that were assaulted by the German airforce crawled back to their shelters, mumbling things about an overwhelming number of planes attacking from everywhere."

I am terrible at this, lol.

[TaoJah]

Originally posted by Liam:

Thank the Dice!

Yes, you thank the dice, I loathe them. Oh, well !

Originally posted by Liam:

P.S. Germany cannot run a late Barbarossa, something I've found, just doesn't work! I have never fair'd well in my late game Barbarossa's EVER and I have never seen anyone else do it either.

No, it's next to impossible, hehe. But that doesn't mean I'm not gonne try something here or there, I got every single German army, corps and airplane on the board, plus plenty HQ support, so it would be a bit silly to not try anything.

[Liam]

Tao,

Yes, that's a wall of Grey Units.

So far 17 German field losses

7 Russian

30 British, a lot of Minor Dead but I'm sure a lot of others too...

[Liam]

Taojah took Germany in our last Mirror game... Ending my Axis struggle for world supremacy. A grave error I had him then! Of course having someone and not protecting your King means nothing, even if your opponent is down to 1 pawn, in this case 2 pawns! Always protect your Capitols! I've lost more games this way with a lead than any other!

The Axis expected that I would attack and get destroyed by more experienced and numerous units in 1941, but I waited until 1942... Russians had finally researched all their techs, and built every tank. With these tanks we drove through Iraq and Conquored the Entire MiddleEast. Because the British sacrificed their MPPs to delay the Germans and Italians in North Africa all the way into 1941...

I met the Full might of Barbarossa in 1941 and '42 and completely kicked it out of Russia but I let him back in, due to his Airpower so I could fully conquest the MiddleEast.. Drawing manpower he didn't have to Egypt...

If this classic manuever wasn't enough, I also drawed some German resources West in a complete wastful invasion of France that would've never succeeded. I went in early and exchanged a few units to draw more resources there. The Axis were overextended conquoring the whole world and attempting to protect every inch of soil, they could never take the USSR. Which when we quit was building about the same MPPs as the Axis. Still didn't get Ural Industry, but didn't need it...

Didn't need USA or UK that bad to defeat him... Finland and then German itself would've been next..

Taojah despite being completely destroyed the entire game after France, didn't quit until he saw that inevitable Russian Firepower was impenetrable, that Leningrad-Minsk-to Odessa would never be conquored!

Also England and the USA were never going to be taken either. No way to go but to surrender. Once you let the Russians dig in and build up you will lose, this is a signal to all amatuer Axis players. I know it myself.. The Russians can defeat the Axis alone, only strategy I think viable would be an Economic strategy, requiring the removal of the English... otherwise the USSR must be half taken by the end of '41 and still on the defense thru' 42 or Game Over