AI Pet Peeves from SC1

[Edwin P.]

A listing of AI actions and inactions from SC1 I would like to see addresse in SC2.

1. Human Axis takes Scarpa Flow, AI destroys Axis unit but does not occupy Scarpa flow hex, merely contines to bomb Scarpa flow port each turn.

2. Human Axis takes Canada in daring raid, and then withdraws all units from Canada. USA AI bombs Canadian port and cities, never launching Canadian Liberation campaign.

3. Human Allied withdraws all forces from Middle East, Axis AI never advances to take undefended Egypt.

4. Axis AI never moves French Corps in Beriut to English territory to ensure it becomes Free French when France surrenders.

5. Axis AI never moves French Corps in Algiers to Gibraltar or Malta to ensure that it becomes Free French when France surrenders.

6. Allied AI will move French Air to UK, but never execute standard strategy of disbanding Free French fleets after France surrenders in UK city so that UK receives 200 mpp per fleet.

7. Human Axis stations six subs in Atlantic and Allied AI sends USA transports directly into submarine blockade turn, after turn, after turn.

8. AI Air Fleets do not focus on destroying units.

9. AI does not concentrate Air Fleets on one front.

10. AI does not bomb port to prevent new reinforcements from landing or isolated forces from evacuating.

11. Axis AI always lets several units - usually 3 to 5 become isolated on the Crimean penninsula.

12. Axis does not know how to use HQ units

13. Allied AI does not know how to withdraw units from a Failed D-Day invasion, but allows them to be destroyed one by one.

A. TECHs

A1. AI nevers reclaims tech chits when in dire need.

Example: Air Fleets supporting D-Day are damaged by interceptors and AI did not reclaim UK tech chits to finance the repair of these units.

A2. AI does not reasearch techs for units it is most likely to build or for strategy it is likely to follow.

A3. AI does not place enough emphasis on tech research

A4. AI does not adjust tech spending based on knowledge of enemy tech advances and units produced.

Example: If Axis has Level 4 Advanced Subs and Deployed 5+ subs to Atlantic AI did not research Sonar to counter Axis advantage.

B. HQs

B1. AI deployed too many HQs in one area. This did not maximize their ability to support combat units.

B2. Axis AI allowed HQ units to be isolated by advancing forces, usually Northwest of Riga, in Crimea, and in Greece.

[ January 15, 2006, 07:21 PM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ]

[Retributar]

Hear! Hear! ... We WholeHeartedly Agree...!.

Also we 'recently' had a discussion on how Russia should not be able to pre-maturely attack Germany early in the game...as in REALITY...that did not occur!. Unless one selects an OPTION-BUTTON to throw this item into the barrel with other possibilities that may or may not(Random Odds Generator) take place in the Game.

[Mr.Dozer]

how about russia can attack countries around it when it neutral but when it does it decreases russian readyness.

[synystr]

The only reason Russia wasn't prepared for a German attack was Stalin, no doubt about it, so I agree with Retributar, that the Soviet Union shoulnd't at default be able to prematurely attack Germany.

Dozer has a good point too, because Stalin had a blind hope that while Germany endulged in its fancys throughout western europe he could have more time to work with Finland, stationing 27 divisions, including 5 armored there.

An example of some of Stalins steps to ensure Germany wouldn't invade Russia;

-increased Russian supplies to Germany (made a number of facilities to improve trade of a variety of resources

- stopped arguing about the Russo-German frontier in the Baltic area

- he enpunged all critisism of Germany from the Soviet press, let alone of his own nation

- he withdrew recognition of the Norwegian, Belgian and Greek governments in exile, and

- expelled the Yugoslav ambassador from Moscow

Hmmm, nervous was he?

[Edwin P.]

Here's a quote on AI development from the GalCiv2 web site:

It isn't enough for a game AI to be challenging. The AI needs to be more than that. It needs to play like a human being. Much of what I've done this holiday is go through and play the game over and over and think of different ways human beings would play the game. Then I've tried to replicate that. We want a player to feel like they're playing someone else on-line (minus the disconnects and swearing).

[beginner's luck]

Edwin ,

Is this a quote about SC2 or about another game.

[Retributar]

beginner's luck GalCiv2 is Galactic Civilizations 2.

http://www.galciv.com/index.asp?c=1&u=0

&

http://www.galciv2.com/

This is a SCI-FI game...Space-Based WarGame instead of SC2 which is a Land-Based WarGame.

I recommend it!...i already have GalCiv_1 and will soon order GalCiv2!.

Enjoy the Web-Page!...

[ January 16, 2006, 11:17 AM: Message edited by: Retributar ]

[Sombra]

Although looking forward to GlaCi2 (28. of Feb )

Still Glaciv 2 will be single player only. The chief developer Frogboy is a kind of specialist for AI behavior. (non cheating, providing a real challenge). Although he kind of fond of project mangement with clearly defined milestones. The timing of the development is kind of impressive. (The are very few late on their promises for a new beta, features included etc. )

I don´t think that Hubert alone has neither the resources nor the spealized knowledge to give us an AI who provides a real challenge.

The best we can hope for is (IMHO) a AI which is not really stupid.

I am looking more to the multiplayer experience :cool:

[Edwin P.]

Sombra, HC may surprise you with a better AI than you expect.

That said, there are a few hints about Galciv's AI development on the Galciv.com and galciv2.com websites that I found most interesting.

First, the AI has a level dependent chance to notice what the human player is doing and respond to it.

Second, the AI has a level dependent chance to know specific strategies. At higher AI levels you face an opponent that evaluates and responds with a wider choice of actions.

Example 01, in SC1 terms:

Take the standard Human Allied strategy of moving the French Corps in Beruit to Egypt after Italy enters the war so it becomes Free French when Paris surrenders.

Beginner AI - 0% to know this strategy and it will never execute this strategy.

Intermediate AI - 50% to know this strategy and execute, but only after Italy enters the war.

Expert AI - 90% to know this strategy, and it will execute this strategy if Italy enters the war OR it calculates that Paris is likely to surrender during the next Axis turn, even if Italy has not entered the war.

Thus:

Beginner AI - Never Executes

Intermediate AI - 50% to execute if Italy enters war.

Expert AI - 90% will execute if Italy enters war, 90% will execute if France is likely to surrender the next turn. 90% will execute if Italy is likely to enter the war next turn.

This structure makes it appear as if you are fighting a more intelligent AI at higher levels, and it adds variety to the game.

The Intermediate AI may or may not move the French corps in Beruit.

The Expert AI's has a greater chance to execute this strategy and this is influenced by a wider range of variables.

Third, GalCiv had six different AI routines. One for each alien race.

[ January 16, 2006, 09:22 AM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ]

[Sombra]

Personally I am always for a game where the AI follows the same rules as the human player and plays the best it can.

Well, I hope that the AI will be good and if its only to boost the sales of SC2. Still, I think the real competion will be the human vs. human game .

Regarding GalCiv 2 /GalCiv1 this game had one of the best AIs in the market. But look at MOO2-MOO3, CIv2-Civ4 etc. Its like to play against an idiot child. worse units pop up suddenly (civ games) where it is impossible to build them. The computer is simply cheating.

[beginner's luck]

Wow , Galciv1 is very detailed isnt it. Thanks, Retributar for the link. I must have been hiding my head in hole,,never seen this game before,lol. I downloaded the demo but it really seems complicated to play.Is the full version a blast to play? Does it take too long to get a hang of all the different planet management items that you need to setup?Thanks in advance for any insight.

[Retributar]

With a little time and effort beginner's luck this game is not hard at all to play.

Just play some games with a smaller map-size so that you can get into the learning curve quicker.

After a few days of playing the game will become very easy to play!.

You'll probably want to get GalCiv2...which should be out on the market in a months time!.

The main thing in the game is to explore as much as you can as quickly as you can...so that you know who is where and what planets are available for colonization and colonize like mad!.

Send out your 'SURVEY' ships to start your exploration...they also can pick up artifacts and new improved technologies in their travels...which will help you get a technological edge!.

Find websites to goto to get new MODS and various packages to enhance your game as you see fit!.

Have Fun!...i did...and im thinking of playing it again soon!.

Right now im playing some old games...PG2 and Imperium Galactica 2... both of which i have a hard time growing tired of!

Bye for now!

[Edwin P.]

I agree with Retributar. Galactic Civilizations is not hard to learn.

Moreover, winning is not easy as the map changes from game to game and the AI is pretty good.

Its definitely on my short list of games to purchase this year, along with Sc2.

One feature from it that I would like to see in SC2 is events that give you a choice. In Galciv this involves choosing between a good action, a neutral action, and an evil action. Your choices affect your relations with the other AI controlled players.

[Edwin P.]

Getting back on topic,

In SC2 I would like to see an AI that really knows how to use bombers. In SC1 too often the AI would bomb a city or port which a friendly unit could seize. In one game the German port near Denmark remained in Allied hands, while a German air unit bombed it each turn.

The AI never moved a ground unit next to the port to take control of it.

How would I handle the AI for Bombers;

Allied Logic

1. Is there a Battle for Atlantic

------Yes then Go to 2

------No, then go to 3

2. Battle for Atlantic

------Position bombers to support Naval forces and attack ships that spot enemy naval forces in Atlantic

3. No Battle for Atlantic

3.1 Postion bombers to attack targets in Europe from UK.

3.1.1 If AI plans to launch D-Day in 5 turns do not attack ports or coastal cities

3.1.2 If AI does not plan to launch D-Day in 5 turns then add ports and coastal cities to target list.

3.2 If Bombers are intercepted switch to new Target

[ January 17, 2006, 08:52 PM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ]