jon_j_rambo Posted June 18, 2006 Share Posted June 18, 2006 How come the Germans are allowed to sink American shipping every turn, yet the USA is NOT at war? What's going on here? The USA is disrespected, it's a shame Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dispalor Posted June 18, 2006 Share Posted June 18, 2006 If that's true it's not a good thing. At least the war prep. should raise. Don't forget we actually sink one or two of your ships, if I remember right. But I don't know for sure what was the people's reaction in the States. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rclawson007 Posted June 18, 2006 Share Posted June 18, 2006 If you are talking convoy shippments...yes many were attacked by U-Boats in international waters well before the US entered the war. If you're talking US warships, then something is very wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retributar Posted June 18, 2006 Share Posted June 18, 2006 Yes, US transport's were sunk before the US was at war with Germany but, as i recall...at that same time, the US...on top of supplying those supplies and Old WW1 Warship's,...were also providing escort for the Convoy's...when they shouldn't have!. This is what i recollect from memory, so it might not be accurate!. If it is accurate, and the US was not yet officially at war with the Axis, then there would not be much that they could have legally or justifiably countered with in this situation!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markpoll Posted June 18, 2006 Share Posted June 18, 2006 It's as per real life, except that it should increase US readiness. In fact, if you take the risk of intercepting US convoys (which the Germans did), there should be a % chance of a Luisitania type incident and a big spike in US readiness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retributar Posted June 18, 2006 Share Posted June 18, 2006 Agreed markpoll!..., Great idea you have there!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoat Posted June 18, 2006 Share Posted June 18, 2006 It's actually surprising that the US was not at war with Germany before December 11th, 1941 with all of the incidents in the Atlantic Ocean. Not only were merchant ships interfered with, but there were also engagements with US naval ships, a la Reuben James. The US was almost as intent on finding the Bismarck as Great Britain was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted June 18, 2006 Share Posted June 18, 2006 From wiki: The first time Americans engaged in hostile action after September 1, 1939 was on April 10, 1941, when the destroyer USS Niblack (DD-424) attacked a German U-boat that had just sunk a Dutch freighter. The Niblack was picking up survivors of the freighter when it detected the U-boat preparing to attack. The Niblack attacked with depth charges and drove off the U-boat. There were no casualties onboard the Niblack nor the U-boat. One could argue that the sinking of the USS Reuben James (DD-245) by a German Uboat on October 31, 1941 might be considered the first American losses of World War II. However, America was not directly involved in the war yet, nor did this cause America to declare war. An interesting quirk of history, the Niblack was in the same convoy as the Reuben James when the Reuben James was sunk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_j_rambo Posted June 19, 2006 Author Share Posted June 19, 2006 One ship, one thing. Entire convoys for turn after turn, DEFECT. -Legend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 the germans never sank entire convoys - you're confusing SC2 with history John - tiem to take the med's I think!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rclawson007 Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 OK, point taken. I have, in general, increased US activation in the script mods I am making and will look into finding a way of checking convoy loss. While that is difficult, it is certainly possible to write a script that increases US activation based on the number of german naval assets in the Atlantic (ie. # of subs/ships - at present the scripts do not allow a query on type of unit). What are you thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_j_rambo Posted June 19, 2006 Author Share Posted June 19, 2006 @Stalin --- Well, every turn the US cash sent to UK is completely sunk. That sounds like an entire convoy to me? @rclawson007 --- Well, something needs address, thanks for looking into it. I was thinking more on the lines of how much damage Axis subs are doing to USA shipping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 That's the game John - again you shouldn't mistake it for real life! In "real life" only a portion of convoys were sunk, and only a portion of U-boats destroyed. the convoy system is only a very crude representation of what actually happened - IMO it doesn't rate a pass mark!! Some ppl look like they're modding naval warfare as much as they can within the limits of hte game, so there should be fewer losses to U-boats, and also fewer losses of u-boats hopefully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_j_rambo Posted June 19, 2006 Author Share Posted June 19, 2006 This isn't real life? I thought every game was being carried out in another world? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rclawson007 Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 jj... The script handles (data variables) we are given acces to do not allow that. What I can do is check the number of axis units (which have to be any naval unit - again using an existing script handle) along the convoy path. There are already naval scripts (you may or may not know) that check the location of the US fleet and activate Spain and USSR toward axis. Anyway, a simple duplication will accomplish the goal. Question is...provide some feedback on how many activation points versus the number of axis units (on a per turn basis of course). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 Originally posted by jon_j_rambo: This isn't real life? I thought every game was being carried out in another world? most of your thought process are not of this world!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_j_rambo Posted June 19, 2006 Author Share Posted June 19, 2006 @rclawson007 --- Is this something Hubert will put into a patch? Or is this a personal rollout of code for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rclawson007 Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 I do not speak for Hubert, but I will make the code available for any who want it. Maybe HC will decide to use it. I think some US activation help is needed. I had one game with US entry in Dec.43. Course that was my strategy...prolong US activation as long as possible. I even diplo'd little Iraq to avoid the hit after taking Cairo on my way to Russia's Oil fields. Damn Iraq/Russia border requires 2 HQs to cross. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 A script that gets the US upset if any German surface ships are anywhere near their coast would be a good idea - eh John?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rclawson007 Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 That is again, fairly simple to implement, as stated above its already being done. I'll add that as I also see it as an oversight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rclawson007 Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 At present I have: 75% chance per turn for 1-3% increase if 1-2 axis naval units in vicinity of US Lend-Lease. 75% chance per turn for 2-6% increase if 3+ axis naval units in vicinity of US Lend-Lease. (Requires US at 40% for LL to be active and UK not surrendered) Remember that this hit occurs whether the subs raid US convoy or not. Thus the 1-3% at 75%. The US/UK usually knew the U-Boats were in the general area due to radio traffic intercepts etc. so this method is not totally out to lunch. I agree that basing on lost MPP would be better, but I don't have access to that code. Also, If the axis get close to the US coast and activation up to 15% can occur depending on # of naval vessels. And that's per turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blashy Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 You should have it that you have to be ON the lanes. Because the Canada UK lane is pretty close and a player could activate US without touching the lanes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rclawson007 Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 Yes I know, but that is asking ALOT given the current script handles. Besides, it won't take effect until US is at 40% so for now lets just assume the US Merchant Marines helped move the goods from Canadian ports as well. Maybe when the editor is upgraded, I can make a direct call against the number of MPP lost. As it is the file includes 16 seperate scripts to model this effect. And in reality, I doubt the U-Boat captains cared about which port the freighters left from...so it may actually be a better "representation" the way it is, depending on your point of view. Must admit, I do not know much about the interdiction other than a Discovery documentary I saw a few years ago on the US Merchant Marines. They lost, what I thought at the time to be, a staggering # of seamen prior to Dec. 7th is about all I remember. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaoJah Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 So, if wikipedia is correct, the US attacked the Germans first ? Without the Germans even firing a shot at them ? Pre-emptive strike for the win ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_j_rambo Posted June 19, 2006 Author Share Posted June 19, 2006 @Stalin --- Then how would I cheap shot you? I like the extra turn to sniff your US Ships before the carnage. With a change, guess I'll need to time it a little bit better. @Jar-Jar-Tblashy --- Dude, what's your take? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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