The Dutch Gambit

[The Great Santini]

If the Germans delay their attack in the West until spring 1940 would it be possible for the Allies to launch our old friend from SC1, The Dutch Gambit, and stall the Germans on the wrong side of the Rhine?

[hellraiser]

it may be possible, technically, but practically would be a huge mistake - you get quite a drop in US readiness and, let's be honest, the Rhine in sc2 ain't the rhine we used to have in sc1.

Germans will kill everything, rhine or no rhine

[Colin I]

I guess there is the morale boost too, coupled maybe with UK picking on some small countries (Norway?) or providing strong support in Benelux.

Could be a nasty surprise if Germany is taking its time over Poland.

Not convinced against a decent player but would like to try it some time.

[n0kn0k]

I wonder where you would get the troops from to conquer Norway and the Benelux and trying to hold them By the time your african troops get there Germany is already all over France.

[Colin I]

I'm only toying with this. Think French armour plus support could take Benelux turn 2-3 (turn 1 promote to level 10, turn 2 hit Benelux with French plus strong UK naval and air support.

Meanwhile BEF plus Navy head for Oslo plus you start shipping in from Egypt to defend UK or take Eire and support all this.

Get all this right (and I freely admit getting it wrong is a nightmare) then you could shock Germans.

If they know its coming or you get it wrong you have pissed of US plus a disastrous position. No one ever said war was low risk

But the historical French plan was FAR stranger. They seemed to want to intervene in Finland. I'll never really understand why.

[SeaMonkey]

UK tries this stuff against a decent SC player and you'll be opened up to Sealion.

I won't mention the readiness hit to USA that HR referred to.

IMO Bad plan!

[Liam]

It's possible, and the consequences outweigh the gains. The attack values of the German armies are too high... If the Allied player was lucky with dice and was able to execute a flawless manuever it might delay the Fall of France a Month or two... Though in the end the hit by Readiness would be what? Plus the fact Germany would be making 6 MPPs more per turn. After around 50 to 100 turns, that's what 300 to 600 MPPs over the course of a game! Plus what a, 10 percent reduction in USA readiness? Could be that high, if the plunder was 300 or so. I'd say do it! Though it isn't and if it was a defensible position, sure, but really it's not, it's a speedbump at best

[hellraiser]

i think the reduction of US readiness is more. 15%, but I can be wrong, and lazy to check the scripts - Yoda where are you when we need you?

Taking Benelux, Norway and Ireland is MEGALOMANIA lol!!!

First of all, taking Norway will eat up 2 units (army and corps). Taking Benelux would make sense if you could hold the ground, which you cannot. You cannot because almost every player now hits LC / Denmark in turn 2 so you probably won't have the chance for a LC gambit. And even if the axis player waits until spring, I wouldn't do it - getting USA earlier in the game outweighs clearly any minor gain I may have from capturing Benelux. Think that the cash goes to France, which is pretty much useless. Plus, germans ammass a huge firepower on a very narrow front, they have a non-river tile to hit from. Maybe this way you can inflict some losses to Axis, but in the long run I don't think it is a wise decision.

If the germans wait until spring, maybe there are some other interesting moves to do as the allies

Like, if Axis had 1-2 diplo hits on Spain, DOW Portugal, capture it, the next turn Spain joins in response to allied aggression on Portugal and you may be able to knock Spain off while Gerry is still busy capturing Paris. Gerry will miss a lot of garrisons later on, they will have problems with minors RO/HU, but you must be careful and build some corps to prevent a SL

There are other options in the mid game for a more aggressive allied gameplay - Tunisia, Algeria (after France is gone) - allied dow on these 2 do not affect majors' readiness. Norway is a must but done in turn 4. Even the mid east has freebies - Syria and Iraq (dowed while France still fights) only upsets some minors. But since you can't hold Egypt usually, the only thing you get is a small plunder and a few turns of convoys - in a way it is a present for Axis.

[TaoJah]

In SCI a Dutch gambit was a possibility because the way the river flowed just east.

In SCII you need more units to defend across the river, too many I think to be worth it.

Besides, in SCII the Axis take the low countries on turn two and that's too early for France to be ready to invade. France only have their troops half-strength to start with and not enough MPPs to raise them enough to attack.